Izrael, Palestina i arapske zemlje

[iDemo]

Eh ta prekomerna upotreba sile.

Tako apstraktan i relativan pojam.

Nekom prekomerna a nekom 'taman'... 

[iDemo]

U sushtini - ja gledam ovaj Izrael sa istim cudjenjem sa kojim sam gledao/slushao Momcila Perisica kako (jednom u zivotu) nesto "od srca" prica o Shiptarima... Nije logicno a opet - jako, argumentovano & ponekad skrene u "prekomernu upotrebu"...

[marav]

Pa ostavi i link, nije teško.

 

Inače, fascinacija srpskih fašova Izraelom, postaje stvarno neizdrživa.

 

 

 

ja izgleda više i ne moram da se udubljujem - samo proverim na čijoj su strani ovaj i njemu slični, i odmah biram suprotnu

[Zaz_pi]

Izrael kaze:

"U.S. Secretary of State of State John Kerry ruined everything."

[Аврам Гојић]

Kolumnista Haareca Ari Šavit, da budemo precizni. Evo celog, zastrašujućeg teksta.

 

Reckless Kerry risks causing escalation; If Israel is forced to undertake an expanded ground operation, it would be appropriate to name the offensive after the person who caused it: John Kerry.

 

The moderate wing in the Israeli security cabinet is led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon. These two territorialist hawks are operational doves: They have no desire to conquer Gaza, or to cut it up, or to enter the population centers of Gaza. They are very afraid of shedding Israeli blood and also of a sudden collapse of international legitimacy. As a result, the strategy they have adopted is to weaken Hamas and not to destroy it – to prefer a diplomatic solution over a military one, and to aspire to a long-term, stable and early as possible cease-fire.

 

But facing these minimalists are the expansionists: Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Economy Minister Naftali Bennett on one side, and certain senior IDF officers, too. This strange coalition is not cut from the same cloth. While the militant ministers hope to destroy Hamas, the officers are looking to penetrate deep into Hamas’ complexes to teach it a lesson it will never forget. But what the civilian hawks and the uniform-wearing hawks have in common is a desire not to stop, to advance and to derisively dismiss the notion that, in doing so, Israel is falling into a trap.

 

Until last weekend, the moderates held the upper hand. They felt the military achievements of Operation Protective Edge were rather good: The Iron Dome system intercepted the rocket attacks on Israel; the air force caused enormous and horrible damage in the Gaza Strip; and the ground forces destroyed 10 out of 12 offensive tunnels that threatened the Israeli communities near Gaza. At the same time, Hamas’ strategic capabilities were eroded somewhat, and the pressure on its leadership grew stronger. With proper management, the military success could have been translated to a certain extent into a significant diplomatic victory: The Egyptian initiative.

 

But over the weekend, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry ruined everything. Very senior officials in Jerusalem described the proposal that Kerry put on the table as a “strategic terrorist attack.” His decision to go hand in hand with Qatar and Turkey, and formulate a framework amazingly similar to the Hamas framework, was catastrophic. It put wind in the sails of Hamas’ political leader Khaled Meshal, allowed the Hamas extremists to overcome the Hamas moderates, and gave renewed life to the weakened regional alliance of the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

The Obama administration proved once again that it is the best friend of its enemies, and the biggest enemy of its friends. The man of peace from Massachusetts intercepted with his own hands the reasonable cease-fire that was within reach, and pushed both the Palestinians and Israelis toward an escalation that most of them did not want.

 

So that is why everything now hangs in the balance. Hamas is exhausted, but fanning the flames time after time. Israel is showing restraint time after time. Netanyahu and Ya’alon are still managing a battle against those who may very well entangle Israel in a real war. But the way Kerry played into the hands of Turkey and Qatar, and the extremist Palestinians and Israelis, has created a situation that is still quite dangerous.

 

If Israel is forced to ultimately undertake an expanded ground operation in which dozens of young Israelis and hundreds of Palestinian civilians could lose their lives, it would be appropriate to name the offensive after the person who caused it: John Kerry. But if the escalation does not happen, instead we should remember that those who prevented it are three people the Obama administration loathes: Abdel-Fattah al-Sissi, Benjamin Netanyahu and Moshe Ya’alon.

 

Edited July 28, 2014 by Грешни Василије

[Turnbull]

Look what you made us do!

[namenski]

...dozens of young Israelis and hundreds of Palestinian civilians could lose their lives...

 

[Gandalf]

Israeli Attitude Towards Gaza

Now as to bombing civilians, I would simply say that we are making an effort that is unprecedented in the history of warfare to be sure that we do not. It is our policy to bomb military targets only. We have never deliberately bombed cities, nor attacked any target with the purpose of inflicting civilian casualties.

 

We hasten to add, however, that we recognize, and we regret, that some people, even after warning, are living and working in the vicinity of military targets and they have suffered. We are also too aware that men and machines are not infallible and that some mistakes do occur. But our record on this account is, in my opinion, highly defensible.

 

Look for a moment at the record of the other side. Any civilian casualties that result from our operations are inadvertent, in stark contrast to the calculated Vietcong policy of systematic terror.

 

Edited July 28, 2014 by Gandalf

[borris_]

Israel calls Brazil a ‘diplomatic dwarf’ – and then brings up World Cup humiliation

 

By Adam Taylor July 25

 

In a statement on Wednesday, Brazil condemned what it said was a  "disproportionate use of force" by Israel in its Gaza Strip offensive by pulling out its ambassador from Tel Aviv for "consultation." The country is the second country to recall its ambassador from Israel; Ecuador did so earlier in the week.

 

At first, the official reaction from Israel appeared sanguine. "Brazil is a friend, but we think its position is not balanced," Israel's general consul in São Paulo, Yoel Barnea, said according to the Wall Street Journal, adding that Israel should have a right to defend itself from the thousands of missiles being fired at it by Hamas and other Palestinian groups.

Things soon took a turn for the worse. “This is an unfortunate demonstration of why Brazil, an economic and cultural giant, remains a diplomatic dwarf,” Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said on Thursday, the Jerusalem Post reports. “The moral relativism behind this move makes Brazil an irrelevant diplomatic partner, one who creates problems rather than contributes to solutions.”

 

That insult wasn't the worst that Israel had reserved for Brazil, however. In an interview with the Brazilian media, Palmor brought up the most humiliating moment in recent Brazilian history – this summer's stunning World Cup semifinal loss to Germany.

"Israel's response is perfectly proportioned in accordance with international law," Palmor said in an interview with the Jornal Nacional TV show late Thursday. "This is not football. In football, when a game ends in a draw, you think it is proportional, but when it finishes 7-1 it's disproportionate. Sorry to say, but not so in real life and under international law."

 

Advertisement

 

Brazil's foreign minister, Luiz Alberto Figueiredo, hit back at the "dwarf" insult. "We are one of 11 countries worldwide that have diplomatic relations with all UN members, and have a history of cooperation for peace and international actions for peace," Figueiredo said in an interview with CBN radio. "If there are any diplomatic dwarfs, Brazil is not one of them."

 

There doesn't appear to have been a comment on the 7-1 jibe yet.

 

Brazil, which has a relatively large Jewish population, has historically had good relationships with Israel. However, its 2010 decision to recognize a Palestinian state hurt relations between the two nations. Brazil was one of 29 countries to vote for a UN' Human Rights Council proposal for an investigation into allegations of Israeli human rights violations during the current conflict in the Gaza Strip. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has called the vote "a travesty" and said it "should be rejected by decent people everywhere."

 

 

Ne moze im niko nista

 

Ovakva arogancija ce se kad tad odbiti od glavu Izraelu.

Edited July 29, 2014 by borris_

[frn1782]

USA ce ih na duze staze pustiti niz vodu to se vidi iz aviona.

Drugo je pitanje da li je politicki i zivotno realno da se ponasaju na bilo koji drugi nacin okruzeni Arapima.

[Turnbull]

Kolumnista Haareca Ari Šavit, da budemo precizni. Evo celog, zastrašujućeg teksta.

 

 

The Liberal Zionists Liberal Zionism After Gaza

 

When Israelis and Palestinians appear fated to fight more frequently and with ever-bloodier consequences, and when peace initiatives seem to be utopian pipe-dreams doomed to fail, the liberal Zionist faces something like an existential crisis. For if there is no prospect of two states, then liberal Zionists will have to do something they resist with all their might. They will have to decide which of their political identities matters more, whether they are first a liberal or first a Zionist. And that is a choice they don’t want to make.

 

[akibono]

Ne moze im niko nista

 

Ovakva arogancija ce se kad tad odbiti od glavu Izraelu.

 

Možda je to samo prijateljska kritika iz Izraela što Brazila nema 'nemački pobednički duh'.... 

 

Stvarno ozbiljno gube kompas izraelski političari, i to nekako progresivno poslednjih 10-ak godina.

[Prospero]

Ovih dana se pojavilo Galupovo istraživanje po kome generacija Amerikanaca mlađa od 30 godina nije na strani Izraela, valjda prva takva od 1960-ih godina.

[Muwan]

USA ce ih na duze staze pustiti niz vodu to se vidi iz aviona.

To bi tek bio vrhunski politički potez - prepustiti najmilitarizovanije i najistripovanije društvo na planeti svojoj sudbini i nekakvom velikomučeništvu. A u šteku im 200+ nuklearnih bojevih glava.

 

Situacija tamo zahteva decenije strpljivog i predanog rada čitave medjunarodne zajednice na demilitarizaciji, komunikaciji, dijalogu i najzad nekom održivom rešenju. Oni koji su dozvolili da Izrael postane nuklearna sila bi trebalo da predvode taj proces a ne da se povlače iz njega. Ali kod te ekipe je malte ne modus operandi da negde poseju zlo za sve pare pa onda elegantno odjašu u sumrak kada treba zasukati rukave i to vratiti u minimum funkcionalnog stanja.

 

 

 

Poslato iz džamije uz pomoć Tapatalk-a

[frn1782]

To bi tek bio vrhunski politički potez - prepustiti najmilitarizovanije i najistripovanije društvo na planeti svojoj sudbini i nekakvom velikomučeništvu. A u šteku im 200+ nuklearnih bojevih glava.

 

Situacija tamo zahteva decenije strpljivog i predanog rada čitave medjunarodne zajednice na demilitarizaciji, komunikaciji, dijalogu i najzad nekom održivom rešenju. Oni koji su dozvolili da Izrael postane nuklearna sila bi trebalo da predvode taj proces a ne da se povlače iz njega. Ali kod te ekipe je malte ne modus operandi da negde poseju zlo za sve pare pa onda elegantno odjašu u sumrak kada treba zasukati rukave i to vratiti u minimum funkcionalnog stanja.

 

 

 

Poslato iz džamije uz pomoć Tapatalk-a

Bila je i Ukrajina nuklearna sila.

Te price o dijalogu civilizacija ne piju vodu ni na drugim krajevima planete a kamoli izmedju Jevreja i Arapa.

Nemoguce je tamo stvoriti okruzenje koje ce tolerisati postojanje te drzave.