Trazimo odgovornost za tragediju u Novom Sadu

[Hubris]

2 minutes ago, radisa said:

Vapa je još tamo, koliko znam, ali moguće i da nije na njih... Sda vidim da udaraju po gradu, ne pokrajini... Što mi je čudno, jer onaj gradski gmaz je 1/1 njihov vojnik... Kad se Banovina raspadala, ćutao je kao zaliven...

 

Juče su Vapu zvali da ode ne lice mesta da daje izjave... Otišao, video sve to, video ko se tamo smuca, okrenuo se i vrati kući... Mislim da nije dao nijednu izjavu...

 

 

Mene bi jako iznenadilo da on da bilo kakvu kritiku vlasti, zbog licnih poznanstava i ko zna cega jos sto ne znamo, ali mozda gresim dusu...

 

U svakom slucaju je potpuni spin prebacivati odgovornost za ovo na zavod za zastitu, pokrajinski ili gradski. Svako ko nesto treba da radi na objektu pod zastitom salje dopis opisujuci sta ce da radi na koji Zavod salje odgovor- izda uslove pod kojima to nesto mozes da radis, sugerise materijale (da zadrzi prvobitni izgled, koriste se isti ili slicni materijali...vrlo uopsteno). Onda se uradi projekat uzimajuci to u obzir, taj projekat se pokaze zavodu na saglasnost. ne bave se oni statikom, da li to tako moze gradjevinski, nisu za to strucni. Oni daju saglasnost na osnovu onoga sta su oni trazili.

 

Ovde izgleda guraju da eto zavod nije dozvolio da se rekonstruise, ali koliko sam na brzinu videla u onim dokumentima koji cirkulisu ne kaze da ne mogu nista, lepo pise sanirati...

 

Moguce je sa su nasli koga ce (svog?) eto da zrtvuju, pa izbor pao na ovog novog direktora. Kakve su to hulje. Zrtvovace nekoga ko realnu odgovornost nema, samo im je eto najzgodnije. Kakva crna odgovornost, pravda...

[MeanM@]

1 minute ago, Hele said:

Treba protest u Beogradu.

 

Sve price tipa: ,,Ako ne mozete do NS-a, onda ni nismo za bolje"... su suplje.

 

Ne mozemo, daj da se uradi sta se moze.

Treba u Beograd. Sutra. I ne treba biti bas civlizovan i dostojanstven. Civilizovan bes ne postoji.

[Engineer]

11 minutes ago, Caligula said:

da se trazi da govno raspise izbore.

???

[Zabalujev]

4 minutes ago, Caligula said:

 

Najjace je da je zavod za zastitu spomenika odgovoran za narusenu statiku.

 

... ma.

Par ovih što daju potpise na projekte da se podmetnu, mašinerija jutarnjih programa i Informerovog lajv-strimovanja, i završen poso. Ja juče popodne držao sastanak sa ekipom, pola tima mi novosađani, ispsovao se i izrentovao po svemu redom na ovu temu, ovi u fazonu koji ti je. Okej, idemo dalje.

[Downforce]

Just now, Zabalujev said:

Par ovih što daju potpise na projekte da se podmetnu

Ma kakvi, Oni su im korisni za dalje silovanje gradnje.

 

Zavod za zastitu spomenika, jer su im smetnja za dalje vrsljanje. KApa dole, cak i u ovakvom trenutku samo refleks za lapanje radi.

[Zabalujev]

Onomad mi reče jedan čovek da njegove licencirane kolege inženjeri rentiraju svoje potpise za 200-1200 evra i ne pitaju mnogo. Ne sumnjam da takvih ne fali.

[Halvard]

14 minutes ago, MeanM@ said:

To je to. Evo, osoba iz familije koja ne gasi pink/hepi tvrdi da je kriv zavod za zastitu spomenika. Spin radi.

Jebemimmajkuzlocinackudaimjebem. Nema tog pakla koji je dovoljan. U sopst govna se udavili.

Mora se sa takvima pričati i predočavati im sve ovo što je samo na ovom forumu postavljeno na tu temu. 

Ne postoji drugi način, ako se bar nekom otvore oči tako i otkine im se glas, već je velika stvar.

[vememah]

22 minutes ago, Sammael said:

Ko je ovaj Danilo?

 

Ovaj levo što se cereka.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 2 by vememah

[duma]

Svako ko danas kod Vučića vidi neku ideologiju, pa mu je neprihvatljiv neko s kim se ne slaže, ili je glup ko kurac, ili je sluga režima. 

Kad mu odgovara  biće nacionalista, kad mu odgovara kosmopolita. Danas za EU, sutra za Rusiju. On će i braniti Kosovo, a napadati one koji bi da to stave na papir. Nikad neće dati i daće, jer je tako najbolje. Njega prate na pregovore uz poruku da uradi kako on tamo odluči, jer je tako najbolje. Podržaće bezrezervno šta god dogovori. Ne mogu da verujem da neko razumno biće to ne vidi.

Vučić je na godišnjicu bombardovanja pozvao Genšera i naredio svojim podanicima da aplaudiraju. Jedno vreme je vladu poverio Bleru, podržao Hilari. 

[morgana]

naravno da je spin uspjesan, najjace da ne bude

cudo nisu s njim krenuli jos juce nego su se gubili sa kinezima i titom, kad je bilo jasno da ce  neka zrtva svojih biti neophodna

trodnevna, jel, ili tako nesto

 

mada me ne bi cudilo ni da zrtvuju i nekog malo uzvodno

opet privremeno

 

ali i bijes je velik i ne mislim da je izvjesno sta ce biti ishod

Edited November 2 by morgana

[Gojko & Stojko]

 

Pol Oster u svom romanu Proročka noć pominje kolaps pešačkog mosta u unutrašnjosti Hajata u Kanzas Sitiju 1981. godine. Relativno skoro sam čitao knjigu, pošto nisam nikad ranije čuo za taj događaj potražio sam malo po netu šta se desilo, i kakve su bile posledice - kao laiku mi deluje jako slično onome što je yabadaba napisao.

 

Hyatt Regency walkway collapse

Two overhead walkways in the Hyatt Regency Hotel in Kansas City, Missouri, collapsed on July 17, 1981, killing 114 people and injuring 216. Loaded with partygoers, the concrete and glass platforms crashed onto a tea dance in the lobby. Kansas City society was affected for years, with the collapse resulting in billions of dollars of insurance claims, legal investigations, and city government reforms.

 

The Hyatt had been built just a few years before, during a nationwide pattern of fast-tracked large construction with reduced oversight and major failures. Its roof had partially collapsed during construction, and the ill-conceived skywalk design progressively degraded due to a miscommunication loop of corporate neglect and irresponsibility. An investigation concluded that it would have failed even under one-third of the weight it held that night. Convicted of gross negligence, misconduct and unprofessional conduct, the engineering company lost its national affiliation and all engineering licenses in four states, but was acquitted of criminal charges. Company owner and engineer of record Jack D. Gillum eventually claimed full responsibility for the collapse and its obvious but unchecked design flaws, and he became an engineering disaster lecturer.

 

The disaster contributed many lessons and reforms to engineering ethics and safety, and to emergency management. It was the deadliest non-deliberate structural failure since the collapse of Pemberton Mill over 120 years earlier, and remained the second deadliest structural collapse^[2]: 4 in the United States until the collapse of the World Trade Center towers 20 years later.

 

 

...

 

The Kansas City Star hired architectural engineer Wayne G. Lischka^[3][19] and national engineering firm Simpson, Gumpertz, and Heger Inc. to investigate the collapse, and Lischka discovered a change to the original design of the walkways.^[16] Within days, a laboratory at Lehigh University began testing box beams on behalf of the steel fabrication source.^[3] The Missouri licensing board, the state attorney general and Jackson County investigated the collapse over the following years.^[16] Edward Pfrang, lead investigator for the National Bureau of Standards, characterized the neglectful corporate culture surrounding the entire Hyatt construction project as "everyone wanting to walk away from responsibility".^[3] The NBS's final report cited structural overload resulting from design flaws where "the walkways had only minimal capacity to resist their own weight".^[1]: 6 Pfrang concluded they would have failed with one-third of the occupants' weight.^[8]

 

Investigators found that the collapse was the result of changes to the design of the walkway's steel hanger rods. The two walkways were suspended from a set of 1.25-inch-diameter (32 mm) steel hanger rods,^[20] with the second-floor walkway hanging directly under the fourth-floor walkway. The fourth-floor walkway platform was supported on three cross-beams suspended by the steel rods retained by nuts. The cross-beams were box girders made from 8-inch-wide (200 mm) C-channel strips welded together lengthwise, with a hollow space between them. The original design by Jack D. Gillum and Associates specified three pairs of rods running from the second-floor walkway to the ceiling, passing through the beams of the fourth-floor walkway, with a nut at the middle of each tie rod tightened up to the bottom of the fourth-floor walkway, and a nut at the bottom of each tie rod tightened up to the bottom of the second-floor walkway. Even this original design supported only 60% of the minimum load required by Kansas City building codes.^[21]

 

This design change would be fatal. In the original design, the beams of the fourth-floor walkway had to support only the weight of the fourth-floor walkway, with the weight of the second-floor walkway supported completely by the rods. In the revised design, however, the fourth-floor beams supported both the fourth- and second-floor walkways, but were strong enough only for 30% of that load.^[21]

 

The serious flaws of the revised design were compounded by the fact that both designs placed the bolts directly through a welded joint connecting two C-channels, the weakest structural point in the box beams. Photographs of the wreckage show excessive deformations of the cross-section.^[23] During the failure, the box beams split along the weld and the nut supporting them slipped through the resulting gap, which was consistent with reports that the upper walkway at first fell several inches, after which the nut was held only by the upper side of the box beams; then the upper side of the box beams failed as well, allowing the entire walkway to fall in a cascading failure.^[24] A court order was required to retrieve the skywalk pieces from storage for examination.^[25]

 

Investigators concluded that the underlying problem was a lack of proper communication between Jack D. Gillum and Associates and Havens Steel. In particular, the drawings prepared by Gillum and Associates were only preliminary sketches, but Havens Steel interpreted them as finalized drawings. Gillum and Associates failed to review the initial design thoroughly, and engineer Daniel M. Duncan accepted Havens Steel's proposed plan via a phone call without performing necessary calculations or viewing sketches that would have revealed its serious intrinsic flaws—in particular, doubling the load on the fourth-floor beams.^[21] Reports and court testimony cited a feedback loop of architects' unverified assumptions, each having believed that someone else had performed calculations and checked reinforcements but without any actual root in documentation or review channels. Onsite workers had neglected to report noticing beams bending,^[3] and instead rerouted their heavy wheelbarrows around the unsteady walkways.^[2]: 103

 

Jack D. Gillum would later reflect that the design flaw was so obvious that "any first-year engineering student could figure it out," if only it had been checked.^[3]

 

...

 

[Babu Bhatt]

Može neko link na onog Mihaljevića?

Nisam stigao pogledati a ne znam na kojoj je stranici stavljeno.

Hvala

[kralj]

A Danilo je pretpostavljam doterao mehanizaciju za raščišćavanje i odvođenje šuta, pa je jutros pustio fakturu.

[villiem]

Jebes i takvu i svaku drugu budalu sto gleda te hepije i pinkove koja ce da poveruje da je neki zavod kriv sto su brzali, sminkali pet puta, otvarali deset puta, prepravljali kao kocke sto su i sad debili buse tunel kroz koji kao treba da prolazimo. Mi samo imamo srece trenutno, porodice u crnilu oni se smeju, ministar kaze nema sta hitna da radi a cela nacija bolesna, ranjena i bez nade. Oni ce da se navataju alkohola i droge a u Srbiji muk, i nije se jedan smejao vec cela ekipa sto stoji deluje da je ispred kladionice il pred stadionom

 

Dok bukvalno svako od nas i svako za sebe ne podnese cenu da ustane svaki dan protiv olosa bicemo opkoljeni i ubijace nas nekaznjeno

 

[freakns]

naravno da je vec pronadjen zrtveni jarac. i naravno da se vec razradjuju seme kako ce na ovom jos vise da se zaradi. a Pink je vec u kampanji da se od ovoga navuce jos koji glasic, a sace i RTS da uskoci.

meni samo nije jasno kako neko ovde i dalje misli da ce u ovoj drzavi bilo ko da odgovara za bilo sta? da li je moguce da ste i dalje toliko naivni? oni su vec sklonili projekte sa APRa sto je samo po sebi protivzakonito. znaci bukvalno svakom je bilo odmah jasno da ce da namincaju sta im najvise odgovara apsolutno ne mareci za stvarnost.