Gandalf Posted Sunday at 15:57 Posted Sunday at 15:57 37 minutes ago, Turnbull said: only the left that has a coherent vision to offer against the ideas of the right. O kojoj levici se radi? Materijalističkoj ili identitetskoj? Problem koji ovi prvi (Sanders) imaju je da bi morali nekako ubediti AA i aktiviste da budu mnogo tiši. Drugi imaju problem sa radnicima koji nisu čitali sabrana dela Džudit Batler. 3 1
Weenie Pooh Posted Sunday at 16:57 Posted Sunday at 16:57 1 hour ago, Roger Sanchez said: Ti si možda zatvorio knjigu o Berniju, ali muvment nije; sve dok ga ekipa Sirota i Ninočka i drug Winant i Briahna ne počnu prokazivati kao normie libtarda i Gaza genocidara, on je još uvijek ajatolah pokreta. Kog pokreta, čoveče, gore si ispravno objasnio da to ne postoji. Sad opet insistiraš da je BS ajatolah tog nepostojećeg pokreta.
Weenie Pooh Posted Sunday at 17:00 Posted Sunday at 17:00 59 minutes ago, Gandalf said: Drugi imaju problem sa radnicima koji nisu čitali sabrana dela Džudit Batler. Ništa što bi moglo da se nazove radnikom odavno ne ubrajaju u levicu™, to su sve deplorable rasisti i seksisti, Trampovi glasači. Poslednji put ih se setio pomenuti Sanders pre osam godina, dobio neočekivano glasnu podršku, a onda bio momentalno ugušen - to bi trebalo da ti je dovoljan odgovor na pitanje da li se cilja na identitetsku ili materijalističku levicu. 1 1
Turnbull Posted Sunday at 17:21 Posted Sunday at 17:21 Nabadate obojica, Quote When mainstream Democrats and center-left mandarins say “working class,” they seem to think of the same people Donald Trump thinks of. Chuck Schumer infamously discounted the party’s lost blue-collar votes in southwestern Pennsylvania next to those he imagined it would gain in the Philadelphia suburbs—apparently forgetting about the question of turnout in Philadelphia itself. In a recent piece in Slate, Yascha Mounk—director of the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change—wrote that the Democrats should focus on “states where appealing to the white working class is not as important as increasing turnout among minority groups and appealing to moderate voters in the suburbs.” Note the slippage: whatever program will appeal to the entity known as the “white working class” will not appeal to “minority groups,” who are joined together in this analysis with “moderate voters in the suburbs.” Has Mounk ever spoken to a working-class American outside of a customer transaction? It is difficult to imagine how the categories with which he operates could possibly have survived such an encounter. The American working class is, after all, less white than the rest of American society, and, by all survey evidence, has more left-wing political views—by dint of its composition by race and gender, as well as its class experiences. The danger that the Democratic Party and elite liberalism now face is that they cannot conceive of the American working class as it actually is, insisting instead on addressing a specter from decades ago. The right-wing hard-hat, the eternal Reagan Democrat—such anachronistic images provide a way of not engaging with questions of class inequality. So long as these ghostly figures are what “working class” means, there can be no working-class force in political life, and the cycle of programmatic dilution and mass demobilization can continue, with increasingly horrifying consequences. https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/new-working-class-precarity-race-gender-democrats/ 1
Weenie Pooh Posted Sunday at 17:36 Posted Sunday at 17:36 9 minutes ago, Turnbull said: Nabadate obojica, https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/new-working-class-precarity-race-gender-democrats/ Nabada autor kog citiraš, zaključka bez: "One way or another, workers will reinvent or transcend inherited organizational forms, or they will never make themselves heard at all." Ideja da će se klasna svest formirati na "intenziviranim presecima rasnih, polnih, i klasnih interesa" je 45 godina stara budalaština. Autor je dovoljno inteligentan da kapira koliko je uzaludno nadati se tome u nedogled, pa se ograđuje i ostavlja mogućnost da se ništa od toga neće desiti... ali je previše indoktriniran da potpuno odbaci te uzaludne nade da se insistiranjem na specifičnosti proizvodi univerzalnost. 1
Gandalf Posted Sunday at 18:16 Posted Sunday at 18:16 (edited) 1 hour ago, Turnbull said: Nabadate obojica, https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/new-working-class-precarity-race-gender-democrats/ ovo u praksi ne znači ama baš ništa, dobrim delom je naširoko i nadugačko izložena cirkularna teza. formiranje nove radničke klase poprima neistražene i nove forme organizovanja i svesti. pa se valja prilagoditi tome. 'ajde!? edit: za razliku od Vinija, ja ne mislim da je budalaština. tačno je, ali u praksi ne znači ništa. npr. u praksi, ilegalna Latino frizerka u Teksasu nije radnik, već preduzetnik u pokušaju. Edited Sunday at 18:28 by Gandalf 1
Weenie Pooh Posted Sunday at 18:32 Posted Sunday at 18:32 14 minutes ago, Gandalf said: za razliku od Vinija, ja ne mislim da je budalaština. tačno je, ali u praksi ne znači ništa. Dakle budalaština? Intersectionality kao organizaciona platforma je dokazani promašaj, slepo crevo iz kog tzv. levica evo pola veka ne uspeva da izbaulja.
Gandalf Posted Sunday at 18:36 Posted Sunday at 18:36 Just now, Weenie Pooh said: Dakle budalaština? u praksi. u teoriji, 100% tačno (prosta cirkularna teza).
Weenie Pooh Posted Sunday at 18:38 Posted Sunday at 18:38 Da ne bude da sam striktno antiprotiv (ne znam čoveka), onaj drugi tekst mu je mnogo više on point: Our role in defending the values once claimed by our employers, representatives, and self-appointed spokespeople will become harder to mistake or avoid. As Brecht also observed, “those who are against Fascism without being against capitalism, who lament over the barbarism that comes out of barbarism, are like people who wish to eat their veal without slaughtering the calf. They are willing to eat the calf, but they dislike the sight of blood. They are easily satisfied if the butcher washes his hands before weighing the meat.” To tell the truth instead is not in itself a solution, but it is the necessary, and only possible, first step. 1
Budja Posted Sunday at 18:40 Posted Sunday at 18:40 1 minute ago, Gandalf said: u praksi. u teoriji, 100% tačno (prosta cirkularna teza). Nisam siguran sta zelis epistemoloski da kazes. Akoje u pitanju definicija koncepta, to je samo deo teorije. Ako teorija proizvodi cirkularne hipoteze koje empirjiski ne mogu da se dokazu jer ner nisu falsifiable, onda je u pitanju prilicno djubre od teorije. 1
svashtabezneshto Posted Sunday at 18:43 Posted Sunday at 18:43 mali intermeco iz prijateljske slovenije https://www.facebook.com/watch/?mibextid=UalRPS&v=1259165278606390&rdid=9TebczrGYMQxmyZx Največja glasbena atrakcija pa tokrat objokuje izgubljene priložnosti. #malaterasa #kajdogaja Alenka Marinic @zala ana štiglic @veronika vižintin @teja bitenc @tereza kolbezen @ana marija hauko Vse oddaje v celoti pa so na voljo na voljo na portalu RTV 365 https://fb.watch/vMK0a21_KL/ 2
Weenie Pooh Posted Sunday at 18:49 Posted Sunday at 18:49 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Budja said: Ako je u pitanju definicija koncepta, to je samo deo teorije. Ako teorija proizvodi cirkularne hipoteze koje empirjiski ne mogu da se dokazu jer ner nisu falsifiable, onda je u pitanju prilicno djubre od teorije. Ta uslovno rečeno teorija empirijski je dokazana kao neosnovana budalaština. Odustajanje od klasnih interesa kao fundamenta organizovanja levice nije bilo bazirano ni na kakvoj stvarnoj teoriji, samo na smuti-pa-prospi hipotezama Frankfurtske škole o tome šta se može uraditi sa radničkom klasom na Zapadu (zaključak je bio "ne mnogo" pa kao, zaokrenimo ka kulturi i grupnim identitetima kao alternativnim temeljima). Problemima sa tim pristupom, decenije su pokazale, nema broja. Prvo i pre svega, kapitalizam se pokazao kao sposoban da apsorbuje sve identitetske interese, da ponudi nerevolucionarnu terapiju za njihove probleme (koja za ostale identitete ne radi ama baš ništa) - ono kao, ako bude više crnih milionera neće biti rasizma. Drugo i možda bitnije, novi identiteti se mogu izmišljati u nedogled. Možda je bilo razumno pretpostaviti da se polne i rasne vertikale mogu integrisati u neku koherentnu priču, ali ispostavilo se da polova i rasa ima beskonačno mnogo. Šta ćemo sa seksualnim orijentacijama? Šta ćemo sa rodnim identitetima? U pitanju je rupa bez dna - jednom kad kreneš putem apstrakcija, nikad se nećeš vratiti na materijalno. Edited Sunday at 18:50 by Weenie Pooh
vememah Posted Sunday at 18:53 Posted Sunday at 18:53 10 minutes ago, svashtabezneshto said: mali intermeco iz prijateljske slovenije Evo i ovako: 2 2 1
Gandalf Posted Sunday at 18:54 Posted Sunday at 18:54 3 minutes ago, Budja said: Nisam siguran sta zelis epistemoloski da kazes. Akoje u pitanju definicija koncepta, to je samo deo teorije. Ako teorija proizvodi cirkularne hipoteze koje empirjiski ne mogu da se dokazu jer ner nisu falsifiable, onda je u pitanju prilicno djubre od teorije. cirkularna hipoteza. nove forme rada i svesti dovode do novog i drugačijeg shvatanja radničkog organizovanja i svesti.
Sestre Bronte Posted Sunday at 19:11 Posted Sunday at 19:11 glavni problem demokrata na ovim izborima je to što su bili republikanci bez ludosti koja krasi republikance nisu uspeli da se povežu sa glasačima koje zabole za makroekonomske rezultate bajdenove administracije
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