Prosta duša slovenska

[namenski]

13 minutes ago, chandra said:

Balasevica se najcesce dovodilo u vezu sa Dylanom i Cohenom (on sam je preferirao poredjenja s Cohenom), ali slusam ovih dana Pete Seegera i zapravo je on u mnogome slicniji Balasevicu od ove dvojice. Njegov Rainbow Race je mocna i genijalna ploca.

-1

Segeer je, barem kako se meni cini, prepolitizovan^tm za razliku od Balasevica koji je umeo/znao/hteo da drzi finu distancu od segeerovske ispolitizovanosti...

Mozda, u odnosu na Balasevica - preostar, i stilski i muzicki, ne znam...

I uopste - mada nisam neki poseban Balasevicev fan, mislim da je greska poredjivati ga, traziti ga napolju, cak i sto se mozda nespornih uticaja tice.

On je, naprosto - ovdasnji, lokalan, naravno u smislu - kako se pokazalo i dokazalo - lokalnog kao jugoslovenskog.

Kulturnog prostora, naravno, sa sve nostalgijom, ali ne onom politickom takozvanom jugonostalgijom koja je mesavina svega i svacega, nego generacijskom.

Nostalgijom jedne generacije koja se u mnogo cemu moze smatrati izgubljenom...

[אַף אֶחָד]

6 hours ago, namenski said:

-1

Segeer je, barem kako se meni cini, prepolitizovan^tm za razliku od Balasevica koji je umeo/znao/hteo da drzi finu distancu od segeerovske ispolitizovanosti...

Mozda, u odnosu na Balasevica - preostar, i stilski i muzicki, ne znam...

I uopste - mada nisam neki poseban Balasevicev fan, mislim da je greska poredjivati ga, traziti ga napolju, cak i sto se mozda nespornih uticaja tice.

On je, naprosto - ovdasnji, lokalan, naravno u smislu - kako se pokazalo i dokazalo - lokalnog kao jugoslovenskog.

Kulturnog prostora, naravno, sa sve nostalgijom, ali ne onom politickom takozvanom jugonostalgijom koja je mesavina svega i svacega, nego generacijskom.

Nostalgijom jedne generacije koja se u mnogo cemu moze smatrati izgubljenom...

 

Ma nesporno da je Balasevic bio pre svega svoj. Ali to ne znaci da se ne moze pricati o uticajima na njega, sto pesnickim, sto muzickim. Obicno se povlace, je li, Dylan i Cohen, ali meni deluje da je Seegerov uticaj, direktno ili indirektno, znacajniji, posebno kod "ozbiljnih" pesama DjB iz rane faze. Nikad mi to ranije nije palo na pamet do danasnjeg preslusavanje RR.

 

Ne znam kako mislis da je Seeger "prepolitizovan"? Pretpostavljam da hoces da kazes da je njegova poezija previse politicki odredjena? Seeger je covek koji je uveo na velika vrata politiku u muziku, naravno da je tako, ali on je imao itekako nepolitickih pesama na repertoaru. Kao sto je i Balasevic umeo da zadje duboko u politiku bez zadrske i distance.

 

 

 

 

[Budja]

12 hours ago, chandra said:

Balasevica se najcesce dovodilo u vezu sa Dylanom i Cohenom (on sam je preferirao poredjenja s Cohenom), ali slusam ovih dana Pete Seegera i zapravo je on u mnogome slicniji Balasevicu od ove dvojice. Njegov Rainbow Race je mocna i genijalna ploca.

 

U vasem lokalu (Chandra i Lancia): Da li je moja ideja o slicnosti senzibiliteta sa Sabinom samo moja?

[Ivo Petović]

8 hours ago, chandra said:

 

Ne znam kako mislis da je Seeger "prepolitizovan"? Pretpostavljam da hoces da kazes da je njegova poezija previse politicki odredjena? Seeger je covek koji je uveo na velika vrata politiku u muziku, naravno da je tako, ali on je imao itekako nepolitickih pesama na repertoaru. Kao sto je i Balasevic umeo da zadje duboko u politiku bez zadrske i distance.

 

 

Woody Guthrie je to ipak bio pre Pete-a, on je imao veliki uticaj na Seegera, kako politički, tako i muzički.

 

This land is your land je napisana 1940.g. kao odgovor na retardiranu God bless America...čak je jedna strofa Gutrijeve pesme bila neprikladna za izvođenje jedno vreme, Seeger ju  je, naravno, izveo na Obaminoj inauguraciji

 

Spoiler

Was a high wall there that tried to stop me
A sign was painted said: Private Property,
But on the back side it didn't say nothing —
This land was made for you and me.

 

 

[אַף אֶחָד]

4 hours ago, Budja said:

 

U vasem lokalu (Chandra i Lancia): Da li je moja ideja o slicnosti senzibiliteta sa Sabinom samo moja?

 

Mozda, zanimljivo, nikad mi nije palo na pamet. Obraticu paznju.

 

4 minutes ago, Ivo Petović said:

 

Woody Guthrie je to ipak bio pre Pete-a, on je imao veliki uticaj na Seegera, kako politički, tako i muzički.

 

This land is your land je napisana 1940.g. kao odgovor na retardiranu God bless America...čak je jedna strofa Gutrijeve pesme bila neprikladna za izvođenje jedno vreme, Seeger ju  je, naravno, izveo na Obaminoj inauguraciji

 

  Hide contents

Was a high wall there that tried to stop me
A sign was painted said: Private Property,
But on the back side it didn't say nothing —
This land was made for you and me.

 

 

 

Jeste Woody bio pre Seeger, a i pre njega je postojala duga tradicija protestnih pesama, posebno u UK. Seeger i Woody, iako su po godinama blizu, ipak su mi muzicki razlicite generacije. Mislim, Seeger iz 70 i danas zvuci muzicki relevantno, Woody je vise istorijski zanimljiv. Barem meni.

 

Svejedno, meni je interesantno sta su bili uticaji na ranog Balasevica. Slusali su se tu i Simon & Garfunkle izvesno i svasta drugo. Ali ako mora s nekim da se poredi, a poredi se cesto, kao "Balkanski taj-i-taj", meni ni Dylan ni Cohen tu ne idu kao prva asocijacija, posebno s pesnicke strane. Zato me iznenadilo da se, eto, trece teme tog trougla, mnogo bolje uklapa.

[Frank Pembleton]

Mislim da je ovo sa Sigerom i Gatrijem "nategnuto", mislim da su oni bili mnogo političniji od Balaševića.
Moj utisak je više na liniji onoga što je namenski napisao.
Takođe bih voleo videti/pročitati neku ozbiljnu biografiju Balaševića kroz analizu njegovih dela, ono album po album, no ne dolazi mi u glavu ko bi to mogao da napiše.
Mislim, ono da se koliko god može odvoji od našeg blata u kome smo.
Znam da to zapravo ne može. Ali bilo bi lepo.

.... Shiit has hit the fan!

[namenski]

10 hours ago, chandra said:

 

Ma nesporno da je Balasevic bio pre svega svoj. Ali to ne znaci da se ne moze pricati o uticajima na njega, sto pesnickim, sto muzickim. Obicno se povlace, je li, Dylan i Cohen, ali meni deluje da je Seegerov uticaj, direktno ili indirektno, znacajniji, posebno kod "ozbiljnih" pesama DjB iz rane faze. Nikad mi to ranije nije palo na pamet do danasnjeg preslusavanje RR.

 

Ne znam kako mislis da je Seeger "prepolitizovan"? Pretpostavljam da hoces da kazes da je njegova poezija previse politicki odredjena? Seeger je covek koji je uveo na velika vrata politiku u muziku, naravno da je tako, ali on je imao itekako nepolitickih pesama na repertoaru. Kao sto je i Balasevic umeo da zadje duboko u politiku bez zadrske i distance.

Mislim da je ovde nesporazum - ako ga uopste ima - u nasoj zasicenosti samim pojmovima poput 'politizacije' ili 'angazovanosti'

Zascicenost koja je Balasevic generaciju dovela do gadjenja na politiku.

Naravno da je Balasevic itekako angazovan: cak i u onih par marsalskih^tm stvari, koje su, prvo, danas potpale pod jednu sasvim drugaciju percepciju, narocito politicku, ali nista manje nego - na primer - Guthrie u Reuben James-u...

Cak bih se, da i taj izraz nije debelo devalviran, usudio da takvu vrstu angazovanosti, politicku doduse kao i svaka druga, pre svrstam u - humanost, humanizam, pojmove koje danasnje generacije - ne mislim nista lose, naravno - uopste, ako ikako poznaju u znacenju koje je on imao u neka druga vremena.

Karpatska^tm pesma je itekako angazovana, ali u maniru srednjoevropske humanisticke tradicije, u najboljem, recimo, capekovskom maniru.

Neagresivnom, tolerantnom, na svoj nacin tihom, netalambasujucem okolo sve u pokusaju da se na galamu sto dalje cuje - inace pojava koja je americku angazovanu muziku - Joan Baez na primer - ubila i gurnula prakticno u zaborav.

Sve u svemu, mislim da nema spora oko toga da je za citanje - namerno ne kazem razumevanje - Balasevica, kao i - recimo - Dedica uostalom, potrebna generacijska pripadnost: sve preko toga, a toga ima, naravno, spada u vanvremenost, kao i svaka druga prava umetnost.

Oko uticaja spora nema: Balasevic je bio deo jednog sveta, jugoslovenskog, koji je zajedno sa njegovim sazrevanjem u najpozitivnijem smislu bio izlozen, ako cemo posteno, pre svega prema Balasevicu uticajima sa raznih strana sto ukljucuje Okudzavu ili Visockog, dakle sazrevanju u jednom ipak i za kulturne uticaje narocito otvorenom svetu.

Ali, moje insistiranje na lokalnosti - taman posla da se ovaj izraz shvati kao provincijalizam - potice iz postojanja u Balasevicevom kulturnom okruzenju, atmosferi uticaja poput Antica, Vaska Pope: sve ga to cini lokalnim u smislu nasim...

[אַף אֶחָד]

ma ok, ajde ovako - priznajem da je poredjenje sa seegerom nategnuto, ali poredjenje sa dilanom ili koenom je jos nategnutije (a nekako se odomacilo - ima i neki intervju gde ga pitaju je li on balkanski dilan ili koen, a on kaze "radije koen"). pa da onda preskocimo poredjenja, prilicno su besmislena enivej. 

 

slazem se da bi bilo zanimljivo da neko napise analizu njegovog opusa. sigurno ce doci jednog dana.

 

nego, mali vremeplov - ne kao bilo kakav dokaz ili nastavak rasprave o politicnosti, vec samo kao podsecanje. poslednje recenice i bold su onako... izazivaju zescu mucninu u stomaku iz ove perspektive. ocemo li ikad biti home & dry?

 

 

Freedom songs

In Serbia, western pop is bitterly known as 'Nato music' and folk songs have been a vital tool in the struggle against Milosevic. Robin Denselow reports on a land where pop and politics do mix

Friday 1 December 2000
The Guardian
 

It is early evening on Saturday October 7, two days after the storming of the federal parliament in Belgrade. In the coal mining town of Lazarevac, 30 miles south of the Serbian capital, the entire population seems to be making its way to a triumphant free concert that marks Slobodan Milosevic's departure. A small wooden stage has been erected between the traffic lights across the main road, next to the small hotel and cluster of bars that mark the centre of town. An incongruous blend of old Queen anthems, local folk music and Irish dance tunes blare from the speakers as the crowd wait for their new heroes to arrive.

First comes the strike committee of miners who have defied the Milosevic police and paramilitaries by closing down the vast open-cast pits that scar the countryside. Arms held aloft in triumph, they are greeted by a middle-aged man in a black sweatshirt.

This is Djordje Balasevic, Serbia's most celebrated singer. During the Milosevic era, he was censored, exiled, and under constant fear of arrest, but his songs became a rallying cry for students, miners and all Serb voters who clamoured for change.

This, he says, is his first concert in "free Serbia", and he congratulates the miners and townspeople for making it possible. Then he eases into a solo ballad before bringing on his band of guitars, bass, keyboards and saxophone, for a gloriously emotional show. They start with a protest song, Ne Lomite Mi Bagrenje ("Don't Harm My Acacia Trees"), an allegorical tale which has been interpreted as an attack on Milosevic and has, says Balasevic, become a song of "good versus evil, of youth and suffering, and all those people who have had to leave Serbia". Then they sing Slobodane, written eight years ago but not recorded until 1998, in time to become an anthem for the student protest movement. The title indicates that the first part of Milosevic's first name means "free" and the second part "no". Hence "no freedom".

Balasevic's songs have the sturdy melodies of good country ballads, mixed with a dash of blues. The crowd know all the words, and sing them back at him across the square. He's a fine raconteur, mixing the music with long, rambling stories. One ridicules Milosevic's TV appearance the previous evening, and his claim that he was stepping down to "spend more time with my grandson".

Milosevic's downfall was partly a cultural revolution, fought out in songs from both sides of the political spectrum. In Britain, the idea that political pop can be hazardous seems far-fetched, but there is a depressing history of political singers being persecuted because of their work. Balasevic follows in the footsteps of Pete Seeger, banned by the US in the 1950s during the HUAC anti-communist witch-hunts; Victor Heredia, banned by the military junta in Argentina; Fela Kuti, whose club was attacked by the Nigerian army; and Victor Jara, killed in the Santiago massacres during the Pinochet coup.

Milosevic also used terror against his opponents, and Balasevic says he felt threatened by the militias and secret police. A "rock'n'roll child", influenced by "Pink Floyd, the Beatles and electric guitars", he had already established a popular following across the Balkans by the time Milosevic came to power. Then his livelihood was taken away from him. For a decade, his songs were never played on state television - a situation only rectified after the storming of the Federal parliament. When Balasevic's wife rushed in to tell him that he was back on the air, he was astonished. "I could hardly recognise myself," he says, "because all the recordings they had of me were so old."

During the Milosevic years he retreated to the house where he was born, up in the northern town of Novi Sad (a target for the Nato bombs that destroyed the bridges across the Danube). "I didn't dare leave the house for two months," he says. "I'd been threatened with arrest as a deserter because I refused to fight in Croatia - I have fans and friends there."

He spent his time writing four books, which were printed privately and sold from the house, along with cassettes of his songs, and in the later years he was able to give a few low-key concerts, but was never allowed to promote himself or book any large-scale venues. For much of the time he lived as a refugee, across the border in Slovenia, but then began touring, as "I could go anywhere except my home in Serbia". He travelled across the Balkans, and sang to the Serb communities in Australia and Britain. He kept writing songs, and even managed to keep recording. His last album, Deveste (The 1990s), was the story of a lost decade. The title track dealt, he said, "with just how great the 1960s were, and how things have been getting worse in Serbia ever since". Recorded secretly in Belgrade and in Slovenia, the CDs were smuggled back across the border. Smuggling became something of a national pastime in Serbia; criminal gangs and border police were all involved. There were, said Balasevic, "so many corrupt police officers, there was no real problem getting my CDs back here".

Over the past two years, his songs have found a new audience in the student supporters of the Serbian resistance. As the elections approached, they organised rock concerts to encourage the anti-Milosevic vote, and plastered Belgrade with their slogan Gotob Je! (He's Finished!). Pirate CDs helped to inspire the students, much to the fury of the authorities.

One of the best of those CDs, Gotob Je!, features a ripped election poster of Milosevic on the front cover. Four of the 16 songs on the compilation are by Balasevic, including Slobodane and Zveti Slobodno ("To Live Freely"), a song from the Deveste album which had become a firm favourite with student activists and others opposed to Milosevic. "I'd been waiting to sing it live for over a year," says Balasevic, "and when I did eventually get to sing it for the first time, it was alongside Kostunica at a rally in Belgrade, in front of an audience of half a million people. The students had been using the song, it had been played on B92 [the independent radio station closed last year by the authorities but now back in business] and everyone knew the words."

Young Serbs want to tell visitors that their country is not full of Slobodan-supporting murderers and monsters, and that the image built up in the west during the Bosnia and Kosovo conflicts is one-sided. Belgrade is keen to present the image of a modern European city, and English visitors are likely to be quizzed about the Nato bombing campaign ("how could you do that to us when so many were against Milosevic?"), then asked about English football and western pop. This is now referred to, somewhat bitterly, as "Nato music", but B92 seemed to be playing a solid diet of Pulp last month. The bootleg CDs of the anti-Milosevic campaign have proved that home-made Serbian pop is a force to be reckoned with, and can be witty, original and brave.

But that was just one side of the political pop equation. Balasevic complains that, "far too many of my colleagues simply went along with Milosevic, so they could appear on TV and travel as they wished. If more of us had come together during Croatia and Bosnia we could have done something."

Then there were the musicians seen as advocates of the Serb nationalism that led Milosevic to his bloody military adventures. Throughout the late 1990s, the musical pin-up in Serbia was Ceca Raznatovic, known as Ceca. Unlike Balasevic, she was constantly on Serbian TV. It was Ceca, says Balasevic, who "provided the soundtrack for the Milosevic movie".

Ceca's powerful voice and declamatory, theatrical style mixes the Middle Eastern/ Turkish-sounding influences of southern Serbia with wailing fuzzed guitars and heavy synthesised riffs. Her image is equally brash. For her latest CD, Ceca 2000, she poses in skimpy purple plastic, and blue bondage bra and pants. Nothing dangerously political in that, one might think, but what makes the ruling queen of Serbian "turbo-folk" so special is that she's the widow of Zelko Raznatovic, better known as Arkan. And Arkan was the most notorious and feared of all the gang-leaders and warlords who emerged during the Milosevic era. In January this year Arkan was gunned down in Belgrade, discovered by his wife in a pool of blood. He was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. A group of men accused of Arkan's murder, including an off-duty policeman, are now on trial in Belgrade.

Balasevic is scathing about her musical standing: "She's a folk singer from the south of Serbia, and folk music was used to boost Serb nationalism. When people get drunk they sing about knives and war. It's primitive music and it was always on TV. Turbo-folk was a kind of terror music, but if it's on TV all the time you get used to it. Now I hope we can forget it."

The overthrow of Milosevic has transformed the country's cultural scene. While the one-time queen of Serbian pop attends a murder trial, the singer who suffered the most under Milosevic finds that his life has changed for the better. He can give concerts in his homeland, and is being feted as an international celebrity. In his years in exile in Slovenia he accepted an offer from the United Nations to become UN "goodwill ambassador" for south-east Europe. Last month he flew to New York to take part in a celebrity bash. Recovering from the failure of the Middle East peace talks, Kofi Annan surrounded himself with a motley crew of 40 goodwill superstars, ranging from Mohammed Ali to Geri Halliwell, Susan Sarandon, Michael Douglas, Mia Farrow, Youssou N'Dour and Seamus Heaney. "I was treated like a hero," says a delighted Balasevic.

Back in Serbia, he is preparing a victory concert in the capital. "For years I had managed to give an annual show in Belgrade, but I had no media support, so two years ago I said I wouldn't play another major concert in the city until Milosevic had gone. At that point I had played 99 concerts in Belgrade, and I wanted the 100th show to be really special." The Belgrade victory concert will take place on Monday in the National Theatre in Belgrade.

But are the dangerous times really over? Before leaving Belgrade, I browse through booths of smuggled CDs along the main pedestrian walkway, Knez Mihajlova. Copies of Ceca 2000 are selling well alongside Balasevic and the anti-Milosevic compilations. I'm not sure they're home and dry.

 

 

[dragance]

Kakvog smo mi cara izgubili 😞

 

[Redoran]

Mnogo mi je žao čoveka, baš mnogo bre. 

 

Ako sam ga nekada hejtovao za nešto na ovom ili onom forumu, a sasvim je moguće da jesam, neka mi se vrati trostruko.

 

 

 

[radisa]

 

Genijalno, o ulici, spmenicima i Janiki Balašu...

[Ros]

On 28.3.2021. at 11:04, radisa said:

 

Genijalno, o ulici, spmenicima i Janiki Balašu...

 

ima od 1 do 7.

evo 2:

 

ovo treba skinuti dok firma ne skine

[radisa]

Znam ds ima sve, gledao sam cele nedelje, deo po deo... 

 

Fantazija....

[renne]

[Milošica]

Leteo je kao leptir tvoj čupeeeeeeerak