Biden / Trump - Americki izbori 2020

[Luther]

28 minutes ago, ObiW said:

Ma ne sekiram se ja sto nisi proveravao za Trampa, ni za Bila se nisi mnogo cimao kada si napisao da je "pocinio delo" teske korupcije,  iako nema nikakve presude vezane za to.  Ali bole te briga, nisi ti ovde dosao da pricas ozbiljno nego da spekulises, pricas o svojim osecanjima i da naravno zakljucis da su svi oni isti. To ti se naravno nikad ne bi dogodilo na domacem terenu, ali ovde sve moze, ovo je kao godisnji odmor tipa safari u Keniji.

 

 

 

Nema presude ni za Trampa, a neće je ni biti. Vidiš, u pogledu te prodaje indulgencija jesu isti, u ostalim stvarima naravno nisu iako ti potpuno van pameti i bezobrazno zaključuješ da ja tako mislim. Ni jednog trenutka se nisi odredio prema onome što je BK uradio u vezi sa MR, da li je to za tebe u redu,da li tako   treba da se radi? Tvoje spekulisanje zašto sam "ovde došao" je ispod nivoa pijačnih piljarica. Jednostavno me nije začudilo to što je Tramp uradio, ako je uradio, jer je i jedan drugi POTUS pre njega to uradio. To što se ti nečega "ne sećaš" a zapravo ne znaš je tvoj problem, rupa u naobrazbi, šta da se radi. Bil u ovom slučaju jeste bio korumpiran, sad što nije i osuđen je druga stvar, nije ni za druge stvari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_and_misconduct_allegations). Ne dopadne svaki kriminalac presude i zatvora.

 

Da ponovim: A New York Times editorial called the Marc Rich pardon "a shocking abuse of presidential power." A ti misli šta god hoćeš.

 

[ObiW]

3 hours ago, Luther said:

 

Nema presude ni za Trampa, a neće je ni biti.

 

Pa tek je počela istraga, polako. Ako ti se već ne svidjaju moje takozvane špekulacije (a one to nisu, pattern dolaska iskusnih vukova sa pdfa Srbija-politika koji ne stignu ni da se izuju a već smatraju da su svi isti se ponavlja od kad je forum osnovan) onda bi trebao da se i sam uzdržiš od špekulacija da li će istraga stići do Trampa, zar ne?

 

Hajmo dalje: “shocking abuse of presidential power” koji si ciitirao se ne prevodi kao “počinio je delo trgovine uticajem i teške korupcije”, nego kao “šokantna zloupotreba predsedničkih ovlašćenja”.  Nikakva trgovina uticajem i korupcija se ne spominje u tom citatu, to si ti sam smislio. “Teška korupcija” (a “laka” korupcija bi bila šta, Luthere?) je pak ono što sada DOJ istražuje; za to se koristi reč “bribery”, imaš je u linku gore. To je mito na srpskom. 

 

I na kraju: motive Klintona da “šokantno zloupotrebi predsednička ovlašćenja” možemo da nagadjamo, ali sa sigurnošću možemo da tvrdimo da motiv nije bila ni “laka” ni “teška” korupcija, jer isti oni republikanci koji su  pre Ashcroftove istrage pokušali da izbace Klintona iz Bele Kuće, nisu uspeli da za ovih 20 godina pronadju mito kao razlog.

 

Ponekad mi je i žao tih bolida, republikanaca. Mukice se od 1995 trude da naude Klintonovima, i sve što su im našli su obrisani emailovi i pušenje u predsedničkoj kancelariji. Silno bi se obradovali dokazima, za Bilovo “trgovanje uticajem i tešku korupciju”, osevapio bi se da im napišeš jedan email na tu temu.

 

Quote

 

Vidiš, u pogledu te prodaje indulgencija jesu isti, u ostalim stvarima naravno nisu iako ti potpuno van pameti i bezobrazno zaključuješ da ja tako mislim. Ni jednog trenutka se nisi odredio prema onome što je BK uradio u vezi sa MR, da li je to za tebe u redu,da li tako   treba da se radi? Tvoje spekulisanje zašto sam "ovde došao" je ispod nivoa pijačnih piljarica. Jednostavno me nije začudilo to što je Tramp uradio, ako je uradio, jer je i jedan drugi POTUS pre njega to uradio. To što se ti nečega "ne sećaš" a zapravo ne znaš je tvoj problem, rupa u naobrazbi, šta da se radi. Bil u ovom slučaju jeste bio korumpiran, sad što nije i osuđen je druga stvar, nije ni za druge stvari (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_and_misconduct_allegations). Ne dopadne svaki kriminalac presude i zatvora.

 

Da ponovim: A New York Times editorial called the Marc Rich pardon "a shocking abuse of presidential power." A ti misli šta god hoćeš.

 

 

[Luther]

7 hours ago, ObiW said:

 

Pa tek je počela istraga, polako. Ako ti se već ne svidjaju moje takozvane špekulacije (a one to nisu, pattern dolaska iskusnih vukova sa pdfa Srbija-politika koji ne stignu ni da se izuju a već smatraju da su svi isti se ponavlja od kad je forum osnovan) onda bi trebao da se i sam uzdržiš od špekulacija da li će istraga stići do Trampa, zar ne?

 

Hajmo dalje: “shocking abuse of presidential power” koji si ciitirao se ne prevodi kao “počinio je delo trgovine uticajem i teške korupcije”, nego kao “šokantna zloupotreba predsedničkih ovlašćenja”.  Nikakva trgovina uticajem i korupcija se ne spominje u tom citatu, to si ti sam smislio. “Teška korupcija” (a “laka” korupcija bi bila šta, Luthere?) je pak ono što sada DOJ istražuje; za to se koristi reč “bribery”, imaš je u linku gore. To je mito na srpskom. 

 

I na kraju: motive Klintona da “šokantno zloupotrebi predsednička ovlašćenja” možemo da nagadjamo, ali sa sigurnošću možemo da tvrdimo da motiv nije bila ni “laka” ni “teška” korupcija, jer isti oni republikanci koji su  pre Ashcroftove istrage pokušali da izbace Klintona iz Bele Kuće, nisu uspeli da za ovih 20 godina pronadju mito kao razlog.

 

Ponekad mi je i žao tih bolida, republikanaca. Mukice se od 1995 trude da naude Klintonovima, i sve što su im našli su obrisani emailovi i pušenje u predsedničkoj kancelariji. Silno bi se obradovali dokazima, za Bilovo “trgovanje uticajem i tešku korupciju”, osevapio bi se da im napišeš jedan email na tu temu.

 

 

 

I ti i ja špekulišemo, zato forum i služi, nije to sudnica. Ti špekulišeš da je Tramp sigurno kriv (Tramp skuplja donacije...), bez ikakvih dokaza, jer Tramp po definiciji mora biti kriv. Ja špekulišem da je Klinton bio kriv za tzv. bribery-for-pardon scheme na osnovu raspolloživih činjenica iz relevantnih izvora. 

 

Malo pojašnjenje: laka korupcija=daš policajcu crvenu da ti ne piše saobraćajni prekršaj; teška korupcija=kao višegodišnji begunac od pravde (M.Rich je bio valjda 5 ili 6 na listi FBI) daš milionske $ donacije stranci POTUS-a, njegovoj ženi za kampanju za Senat, njegovoj zadužbini-biblioteci, njegovom pravnom timu, gomili političara u Izraelu koji treba da lobiraju za tvoje pomilovanje, itd. Nadam se da ti je ovo sada jasnije.

 

To što Klintonova korumpiranost u ovom slučaju nije dokazana za mene ne znači ništa jer je korupciju na tom nivou izuzetno teško dokazati. Sigurno se ne ide okolo sa plavim kovertama u džepu, u to su umešani mnogi posrednici i vrhunski advokati. Ex supruga M.Richa, Denis, koja je uz neku cicu tada glavnog glavnog skupljača para za DNC bila glavni igrač u toj igri, se u kongresnom svedočenju u vezi ovog slučaja pozvala na peti amandma, a isto tako i navedena cica. Klinton naravno neće optužiti sebe, M.Rich je umro a taj bi pre optužio pokojnu majku nego sebe. Kao što rekoh ne dopadne svaki kriminalac presude i zatvora. Eric Holder, tada AG zamenik ( pod Obamom AG) se kasnije vadio na "Koštunica sindrom" što se saglasio sa pravnim timom WH oko pomilovanja takvog begunca pošto je to bio presedan. Doduše kasnije je izrazio "žaljenje" zbog toga.

 

Ovo sa emailom ti nije trebalo, čemu takve gluposti. Bolje bi bilo da si objasnio šta ti misliš, da li je u pomilovanju M.Richa od strane B.Klintona bilo elemenata korupcije. Ali naravno kiša, Kragujevac.

 

 

[Anduril]

Mogu ovde samo da ponovim - nije isto da li neko napravi 100 krivicnih dela ili 10. Klinton, Hilari i kompanija su po meni sigurno korumpirani, kao verovatno i veci deo americkog politickog establismenta. Ceo sistem je postavljen tako. 
Ovde je medjutim pitanje o meri gde Tramp ocigledno odskace u laganju, nepotizmu, konflikfu interesa, brisanju tragova, itd. Korupcije sigurno ima i u Finskoj sto ne znaci da je to isto kao i Madjarska recimo. Zato su svejetoisto argumenti toliko slabi i smaraju uostalom.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Anduril

[namenski]

 

 

[Fins fleet]

Rudy dominira:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/12/02/trump-allies-urge-georgia-republicans-sit-out-senate-runoffs/3800126001/

 

"Do not be fooled twice," he added. "This is Georgia. We ain't dumb. We're not going to vote on Jan. 5 on another machine made by China. You're not going to fool Georgians again. If Kelly Loeffler wants your vote, if David Perdue wants your vote, they've got to earn it."

 

 

[dragance]

Ma neće Tramp praviti državni udar, dobar je on, samo ovi oko njega ne valjaju.

 

“Armed Donald Trump supporters have gathered outside the home of Michigan’s secretary of state in a campaign of intimidation linked to the president’s continued false claims of election fraud.”

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-news-live-biden-update-twitter-b1767194.html

[Locust]

Eh, da je u suzbijanje epidemije uložio 5% truda koji sada ulaže u ovo mamuzanje mrtvog konja i 'raskrinkavanje' izbora...

Edited December 7, 2020 by Locust

[3opge]

jos 6 dana nade za narandzasto zlo govno

December 14, 2020: Electors Vote in their States

U.S. Code dictates that electors shall meet and vote on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December of presidential election years. This year, that date falls on December 14. On this day electors meet in their respective states at a location, set by the state legislature (usually the state capital), and vote by paper ballot for President and Vice President.

After electors vote, they sign six “Certificates of the Vote,” each of which includes a list of votes for President and a list of votes for Vice President. Each Certificate of the Vote is then packaged together with a Certificate of Ascertainment. The resulting six official certificates are then distributed to the President of the Senate, the Archivist, and the state’s secretary of state and District Court judge.

The prospect of “faithless electors”—or electors who vote for someone other than their party’s nominee—has been a hotly debated topic. However, this only occurs on rare occasions and has never altered a presidential election outcome. Furthermore, 33 states and the District of Columbia require electors to vote for the candidate chosen by voters during the popular vote.

 

[Gojko & Stojko]

Quote

Trump speeds up pace of executions before Biden inauguration

Chicago: As Donald Trump’s presidency winds down, his administration is ratcheting up the pace of federal executions despite a surge of coronavirus cases in prisons, announcing plans for five starting on Thursday and concluding just days before the January 20 inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden.

 

If the five go off as planned, it will make 13 executions since July when the Republican administration resumed putting inmates to death after a 17-year hiatus and will cement Trump's legacy as the most prolific execution president in over 130 years. He will leave office having executed about a quarter of all federal death-row prisoners, despite waning support for capital punishment among both Democrats and Republicans.

 

In a recent interview with The Associated Press, Attorney-General William Barr defended the extension of executions into the post-election period, saying he will likely schedule more before he departs the Justice Department. A Biden administration, he said, should keep it up.

 

“I think the way to stop the death penalty is to repeal the death penalty," Barr said. “But if you ask juries to impose and juries impose it, then it should be carried out.”

 

The plan breaks a tradition of lame-duck presidents deferring to incoming presidents on policy about which they differ so starkly, said Robert Dunham, director of the non-partisan Death Penalty Information Centre. Biden, a Democrat, is a death penalty foe, and his spokesman told the AP that he would work to end the death penalty when he is in office.

 

“It’s hard to understand why anybody at this stage of a presidency feels compelled to kill this many people … especially when the American public voted for someone else to replace you and that person has said he opposes the death penalty,” Dunham said. “This is a complete historical aberration.”

 

Not since the waning days of Grover Cleveland’s presidency in the late 1800s has the US government executed federal inmates during a presidential transition, Dunham said. Cleveland’s was also the last presidency during which the number of civilians executed federally was in the double digits in a year, with 14 executed in 1896.

 

 

Spoiler

 

Anti-death penalty groups want Biden to lobby harder for a halt to the flurry of pre-inaugural executions, though Biden can't do much to stop them, especially considering Trump won't even concede he lost the election and is spreading baseless claims of voting fraud.

 

The issue is an uncomfortable one for Biden given his past support for capital punishment and his central role crafting a 1994 crime bill that added 60 federal crimes for which someone could be put to death.

 

Activists say the bill, which Biden has since agreed was flawed, puts added pressure on him to act.

 

“He is acknowledging the sins" of the past, said Abraham Bonowitz, Death Penalty Action's director. "Now he’s got to fix it.”

 

Several inmates already executed on death row were convicted under provisions of that bill, including ones that made kidnappings and carjackings resulting in death federal capital offences.

 

The race of those set to die buttresses criticism that the bill disproportionately impacted black people. Four of the five set to die over the next few weeks are black. The fifth, Lisa Montgomery, is white. She is the only female of the 61 inmates who were on death row when executions resumed, and she would be the first woman to be executed federally in nearly six decades.

 

The executions so far this year have been by lethal injection at a US penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana, where all federal executions take place. The drug used to carry out the sentences is short supply. The Justice Department recently updated protocols to allow for executions by firing squad and poison gas, though it’s unclear if those methods might be used in coming weeks.

 

The concern about moving forward with executions in the middle of a pandemic — as the Bureau of Prisons struggles with an exploding number of virus cases at prisons across the country — heightened further on Monday, local time, when the Justice Department disclosed that some members of the execution team had tested positive for the virus.

 

The disclosure was made in a court filing by lawyers for two inmates at the prison complex, saying the Justice Department informed them that some of the members of the team — among the nearly 100 people are typically brought in to assist in various tasks during each execution — had tested positive for coronavirus after the last execution.

 

The spiritual adviser for the man who had been executed also filed court papers saying he too had tested positive after attending the execution.

 

Barr suddenly announced in July 2019 that executions would resume, though there had been no public clamour for it.

 

Several lawsuits kept the initial batch from being carried out, and by the time the Bureau of Prisons got clearance the COVID-19 pandemic was in full swing. The virus has killed more than 282,000 people in the United States, according to figures compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

 

Critics have said the restart of executions in an election year was politically motivated, helping Trump burnish his claim that he is a law-and-order president. The choice to first execute a series of white males convicted of killing children also appeared calculated to make executions more palatable amid protests nationwide over racial bias in the justice system. The first federal execution on July 14 was of Daniel Lewis Lee, convicted of killing an Arkansas family as part of a 1990s plot to build a whites-only nation in the Pacific Northwest.

 

Barr has insisted the reinstatement of federal executions was driven by adherence to laws. He noted that under Democratic presidents, including Barack Obama, US authorities sought death sentences, they just didn't carry them out.

 

“I don't feel it is a political issue," Barr told the AP.

 

Trump has been a consistent supporter of the death penalty. In a 1990 Playboy interview, he described himself as a strong supporter of capital punishment, saying, “Either it will be brought back swiftly or our society will rot away."

 

Thirty years later, not even the worsening pandemic has slowed his administration's determination to push ahead with executions, rejecting repeated calls to freeze the policy until the pandemic eases.

 

Many states with death penalty laws have halted executions over concerns that the rampant spread of the coronavirus in prisons would put lawyers, witnesses and executioners at too great a risk. Largely as a consequence of the health precautions, states have executed just seven prisoners in the first half of the year and none since July. Last year, states carried out a combined 22 executions.

 

The expectation is that Biden will end the Trump administration's policy of carrying out executions as quickly as the law allows, though his longer-term approach is unclear.

 

As president, Biden could seek to persuade Congress to abolish the federal death penalty or simply invoke his commutation powers to single-handedly convert all death sentences to life-in-prison terms.

 

“Biden has said he intends to end the federal death penalty,” Dunham said. “We’ll have to wait and see if that happens.”

 

 

 

SaE

Edited December 7, 2020 by Krošek
formatiranje

[Krošek]

Molba moderatora:

Mole se članovi da ne kopipejstuju veće članke u sirovom obliku, nego da smanje gabarite svog posta (pomoću kvotova, spojlera i bilo koji drugi način). Ovo radi čitljivosti, pogotovo na telefonima. 

 

@Gojko & Stojko Reformatirao sam tvoj post u skladu s gornjom preporukom. Nadam se da ćeš je primiti dobro. Tx for sharing

[Gojko & Stojko]

5 minutes ago, Krošek said:

Molba moderatora:

Mole se članovi da ne kopipejstuju veće članke u sirovom obliku, nego da smanje gabarite svog posta (pomoću kvotova, spojlera i bilo koji drugi način). Ovo radi čitljivosti, pogotovo na telefonima. 

 

@Gojko & Stojko Reformatirao sam tvoj post u skladu s gornjom preporukom. Nadam se da ćeš je primiti dobro. Tx for sharing

Nema problema, ja ionako ostavljam samo link osim ako pretpostavljam da bi ljudi imali problema sa pristupom, molba ima smisla.

 

SaE

[Gandalf]

 

 

[theanswer]

šok

 

 

 

 

[Dankan Ajdaho]

https://twitter.com/ZekeJMiller/status/1336426372558938119?s=20