U stvari je prvo Imerijalna Rusija isla prema zapadu i jugu. Prvo su oslobadjali ono sto su smatrali da pripada njima tj. sto je bio Kiev Rus', pa su razbucali Poljake, Litvance a onda im se osladilo pa su poceli redovno da maltreitraju Osmanlije i krenuli i dalje na zapad od Bresta. Toliko je to islo kroz 18. vek da je ruska elita bila toliko ubedjena u nepobedivost da je slalala jednog Suvorova da jezdi zapadnom Evropom i preko Alpa. Pa je taj Suvorov pobedio Napoleonovu vojskuna severu Italije krajem 18. veka. cuveni ulazak Suvorova u Milano.

Pa smo imali Sedmogodisnji rat kada je ruska vojska prvi put usla u Berlin sredinom 18. vek i Frederik Veliki se umalo nije ubio kao pruski kralj zbog toga. Doduse, neka cudna smrt ruskog cara ga je spasila...

Sto se tice 1812, koliko znam Napoleon nije hteo da unisti Rusiju vec da natera promenu na ruskom tronu i da se vrate u Kontinentalni sistem protiv Britanije. Zato je napadnuta Moskva a ne prestonica ruske imperije u tom trenutku Petrograd.

 

Doduse, sve su zapoceli sami Poljaci pocetkom 17, veka napadom an Rusiju, pa su posle kukali...

 

Naravno ti druze Namenski nisi rekao kako je doslo do Boljsevicke revolucije. Ko je gurao haos u Rusiji tokom 1916 koja je prvo dovela do Februarske revolcuije i onih budala iz vlade Kerenskog koji su pustili one iz nemackog voza u Rusiju koji digose Oktobarsku revoluciju. Sve se to 1916 poklapa sa ruskim probojem Osmanlija na Kavkau kada su uletelu u Anadoliju i krenuli prema Carigradu.

Sve su to cudne podudarnosti. Mnogo ih ima u ruskoj istoriji, nagla trovanja careva, revolucije 1905, 1916/17...

 

Mngoo jr gore ono sto su pojedine zapadne zemlje pokusale da urade tokom perioda najveceg poraza ruske drzave u istoriji-Zlatna horda i Mongoli. Kada je jedina oblast Kiev Rus koja je opstala pod vazalnim statusom ali opet bez Horde na njenoj teritoriji, Novgorodska Republika, bila napadnuta od strane nemackog Teutosnkog reda i Svedjana u ime pape. Tako je nastao cuveni mit o Aleksandru Nevskom i dakako cuveni film Azejnstajna istog imena kao priprema za naredni obracun sa nacistima.

 

 

U Srednjem veku je i Srbija dozivela slicnu sudbinu od strane zapadne hriscanske brace posle Kosovske bitke 1389. Mada se o Srbiji malo to zna iz nekih drugih razloga.

 

 

Edited October 3, 20204 yr by pasha

Takodje su namenski zaboravio da pomenes onaj srami Bresto-Lotivski sporazum kada su Boljsevici predali Belorusiju i Ukrajinu Nemcima 1918.

Sta ces, nemacki voz je bio udoban.

Kazu nemci kada su pogledali u arhive da su se iznenadili,

 

How Germany got the Russian Revolution off the ground

The Russian Revolution has gone down in history as the victory of the workers and peasants over the czarist rulers. Few people realize the German kaiser was also involved: He gave aid to the Bolsheviks in 1917.

The German chartered train was provided by Kaiser Wilhelm II with the aim of furthering the Russian Revolution. In one of the wagons sat none other than Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov, better known as Lenin. With German help, Lenin left his exile in Switzerland and, a week later, reached his destination: Petrograd, which would later be renamed to Leningrad then changed back to today's Saint Petersburg.

In Russia, the February Revolution was just over, Czar Nicholas II had been swept from the throne, a provisional government was in office, and the October Revolution was not yet in sight.

https://www.dw.com/en/how-germany-got-the-russian-revolution-off-the-ground/a-41195312

 

Ali sve su to lazi,

 

 

 

Od subote se sve nadam da će namenski ove 'ohraniteljske' nebuloze da 'poklopi', al' ebga izgleda da je zauzet.

Mozes i ti a on da ti suflira, on je u tome najbolji.

Dakle treba da zapocnes. Evo ja sam zainteresovan bas za Brest-Litovski sporazum kojeg je kritikovao i jedan Trocki i cudio se zasto i cemu.

 

  On 6. 10. 2020. at 8:29, apostata said:

Od subote se sve nadam da će namenski ove 'ohraniteljske' nebuloze da 'poklopi', al' ebga izgleda da je zauzet.

A bre Apostato  pa ne mora bas u svako da se ugazis u sve na sta naidjes...

Narocito kada se krene od iznenadjenja Trockog Brestlitovskim mirom: mora da je bio mnooogo iznenadjen i cudio se buduci da je bio jedan od sefova delegacije koja je isti mir pregovarala...

Ali, 'ajde: izbezumljuje kod ovih novokomponovanih rusoljubitelja stepen збућкавања u glavi...

Kada se pomesa napajanjem sa svega i svacega sto je - kao i svaka govna - isplivalo na povrsinu poslednjih 30-ak godina dobijes ovo gore, manje-vise...

Sliku Rusije i uzdanje u nju, ali samo pod uslovom da ne postoji, izbrisan je CCCP, dakle, otprilike: da je recimo Denjikin na celu kozaka, ali onih pravih, carskih , 1945. ujahao u Berlin, da je Nikolaj II divanio sa Cercilom i Ruzveltom na 1 nivou, a carica, supruga mu, sa Eleonorom obilazila bolnice i ranjenicima delila bombone i zastavice, da su Rusi^tm u Beograd usli sa SDK ili SDS, kako vec bese, a da je paradu u cast oslobodjenja pozdravljao djeneral Draza sa komandantima svojih korpusa^tm stojeci pored Kornjilova...

Ili barem Шкура  

Ili barem da je Staljin neke 1942. raspisao slobodne, demokratske izbore i tako stekao demokratsku legitimaciju...    

A da je sva tehnoloska, naucna, umetnicka i ostala dostignuca Rusiji tokom 20. veka podario gospod bog licno kao Jerusalimu #2, tako nekako...

Ne znam, a dao bih mnogo da mogu ma i da naslutim, kako u glavama mire lozenje na Su-27, S-300, 400, 500, sa gadljivoscu na boljsevike...

1 andurilisanje, samo sirovo do koske...

Nemam ti ja zivaca za to... 

Svasta nesto,

 

 

Kazu svabe iz Spigla da je ovo nadjeno u njihovim arhivima.

Trebalo bi da bude izvestaj nemacke obavestaje sluzbe iz Stokholma 17. aprila 1917. Posto ja ne verujem a priori zeleo bih da znam da li Namenski ima neka saznanja.

Inace za one koji ne znaju nemacki: "Lenjin je usao u Rusiju uspesno. Radi po vasoj zelji."

 

Bezi bre.... 

 

 

Dakle corak Namenskog, Moram reci razocaravajuce.

Da se vratim na Trockog i Brest-Litovsk. Da li je tacno da je Trocki podneo ostaku sa mesta ministra spoljnih poslova, koji je pregovarao sa Centralnim silama prethodno, jer se nije slagao sa Lenjinovom odlukom da se potpise Brest-Litovsk? Naime Trocki i njegovi ljudi u vrhu boljsevickog pokreta su bili za odugovlacenje a ne potpisivanje.

Kakav je stav bio Buharina po pitanju Brest-Litovska?

Edited October 17, 20204 yr by pasha

"Reflecting on these events years later, Winston Churchill would compare Ulyanov, or Lenin, as he styled himself, to a “plague bacillus” that had been introduced into a body at precisely the moment it could do the most harm."

 

 

Lenin and the Russian Spark

A hundred years ago this week, a German train that had been secretly carrying Lenin and other revolutionaries ended its journey in St. Petersburg.

By Ted Widmer

April 20, 2017

 

A postcard of the Finland Station in St. Petersburg, Russia.

 

Reveal hidden contents

 

On April 16, 1917, a short train carrying thirty-two passengers steamed into one of St. Petersburg’s less distinguished stations, completing an eight-day journey from Zurich. These passengers were arriving late to a revolution that had started without them, earlier that year, after food riots broke out in the imperial capital. But one of them—Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov—would quickly seize control of events. By year’s end, he had launched what would become the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, which replaced the empire it despised but remained largely within its geography. Reflecting on these events years later, Winston Churchill would compare Ulyanov, or Lenin, as he styled himself, to a “plague bacillus” that had been introduced into a body at precisely the moment it could do the most harm. The train injected the bacillus late at night, when it arrived and was greeted by a delirious crowd. The next day, Lenin was off and running, speaking and writing at a frantic pace, rejecting compromise, relentlessly pulling the Revolution toward his hard Bolshevik line.

“To the Finland Station,” Edmund Wilson’s history of socialism, published in 1940, took for its title the name of the dreary railroad terminal that welcomed Lenin to St. Petersburg. Serving St. Petersburg since 1870, the year before the Paris Commune, the station was described by Wilson as “a shabby stucco station, rubber-gray and tarnished pink, with a long trainshed held up by slim columns that branch where they meet the roof.” It was not one, he continued, suited to “the splendors of a capital.” Decades after Lenin's arrival, when Wilson was doing his book research, he found peasant women sitting there, with “bundles and baskets and big handkerchiefs around their heads,” seated on “benches rubbed dull with waiting.” Long after the Revolution and all its world-changing promises had settled into a grim stasis, waiting was still a Russian specialty.

The train entered Finland Station a hundred years ago this week, and the end of its voyage marked the beginning of new, seismic events that reshaped the world as the First World War was ending, unhappily, for nearly all of its combatants. It’s a centennial that President Vladimir Putin, no fan of dissent under his own rule, has some ambivalence about commemorating.

 

A new book by Catherine Merridale, “Lenin on the Train,” pays careful attention to the secret rail journey through Germany, Sweden, and the Grand Duchy of Finland that brought Lenin to his destination. A hundred years ago, Russians reeled from a war that was going poorly, a tsar, Nicholas II, who was failing, and the constant threat of invasion and intervention. Lenin’s arrival in 1917 was orchestrated by cynical German leaders who were eager to weaken Russia’s fragile government by sending in a well-known incendiary element, in order to inflame tensions that were becoming acute thanks to catastrophic military defeats, a long history of suppressing dissent, and the simple lack of food. Lenin’s first newspaper had been called Iskra, or “spark,” after a line one poet, Alexander Odoevsky, wrote in response to another, Pushkin: “from a spark a fire will flare up.”

That is precisely how it turned out. Lenin was quite willing to accept help from his sworn enemies, although he went to some lengths afterward to cover up the German origins of the plan. Later, it was important to him to call it a sealed train—a phrase that became famous in history. It described a train passing through Europe secretly, in a state of extraterritoriality, without passport controls, almost as if it did not exist. It just glided quietly through the cities of war-torn Europe, under German protection, carrying its deadly cargo toward Germany’s weakened adversary on the Eastern Front.

Map by Catherine Merridale and Frank Payne, from Catherine Merridale’s “Lenin on the Train” (Metropolitan, 2017).

Churchill’s image of Lenin as a bacillus had a certain resonance for other reasons: the occupants were quarantined on the train, as if it carried a rare disease. Almost no one was allowed to get on or off. Stefan Zweig, the Austrian essayist, called it a “projectile,” as if it were a canister filled with sarin. The little band of revolutionaries who boarded at Zurich had only each other, as they passed through one city after another: Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Berlin. True, there were German soldiers watching their every move, but they stayed in a forward part of the train car, separated by a line of chalk drawn on the floor, which served as an international border between “Russia” and “Germany,” two nations that were technically at war and could not speak to each other. Lenin tried to avoid leaving his carriage, to be able to say later that he had never set foot in Germany, but in Frankfurt the band of passengers secretly stepped off the train to spend the night.

 

The United States also had something to do with the decision to send the sealed train on its journey, albeit indirectly. Ten days earlier, on April 6th, Congress had declared war on Germany. The imminent arrival of American arms and men promised to transform a war now in its third year, and to bring enormous resources to bear on the Western Front. As a result, Germany was desperate to finish off its huge enemy to the east, and eager to try anything. Maxim Litvinov, a Soviet diplomat, later said that the decisive factor that led the Germans “to authorize the passage of our comrades was the entry of the United States into the war.” Still, the success of the plan surprised all of its authors, including its central protagonist. A day before he left, Lenin was still trying to round up support, and telephoned the U.S. Embassy in Bern. A young staffer answered, but, to him, the matter did not seem urgent—he was on his way to play tennis—and he told Lenin to call back the next day. That return call never came; the staffer, Allen Dulles, went on to become the head of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Throughout the winter, Lenin had been quietly living in Zurich with his wife, Nadezhda Konstantinovna Krupskaya, of very little concern to anyone, banished indefinitely from his homeland. They lodged with a cobbler and rarely went out. The great revolutionary was something of a bookworm, going to the public library every day when it opened at nine, coming home to his tiny apartment for lunch at 12:10, and going back to the library from 1 p.m. until closing. There, he read longingly of earlier revolutions—the Paris Commune above all—and wrote inflammatory articles that were read by tiny numbers of purists, equally far removed from the action. But his own revolution seemed to be receding. He was getting older, and he thought it would be many years before Russia was ready. Krupskaya later wrote, “Never, I think, was Vladimir Ilyich in a more irreconcilable mood than during the last months of 1916 and the early months of 1917.” “We old folks may not live to see the decisive battles,” he admitted glumly in a January speech. He felt “corked up, as if in a bottle,” his wife said.

On March 15th, the day he heard the news that food shortages had led to chaos in Russia, he was stunned, and walked to the lakefront in Zurich, where newspapers were publicly posted. There, for the next few days, he received the vertiginous news. The tsar had abdicated! Up was down, and vice versa. Could he go back now? A new world was opening up. It was almost surreal.

 

 

In fact, the word “surrealism” was coming into existence at exactly that moment, one of the many ways in which artists and writers were trying to invent what Guillaume Apollinaire, the inventor of the word, called a “New Spirit.” To a surprising degree, Zurich, the Swiss city we think of as home to banks and burghers, was also a fountain of creativity, embracing irrationality even more passionately than Paris did. From around Europe, expatriates had descended upon Zurich to escape the horrors of the war. Not far from Lenin’s flat, James Joyce was writing word symphonies into his “Scribbledehobble” notebook and beginning to write “Ulysses.” A few streets away, another word, “Dada,” had been coined to describe the deliberate nonsense one group of spirited artists wanted to create, reading poems full of words that they invented on the fly, choreographing Dada dances, and spending much time, the way artists do, in a local café that they called the Cabaret Voltaire. They chose the word “Dada” because it meant so many things in so many different languages—a rocking horse in French, or “yes, yes” in Romanian and Russian.

Yes, yes. The tsar had abdicated! Through all the noise and nonsense, it was becoming clear. Lenin had to get back to Russia; he wrote a friend, “We have to go by some means, even if it is through Hell.” But how? Briefly, Lenin toyed with the idea of renting an airplane and simply flying over Europe to land in Russia. Such a death-defying act might have made him the greatest Dadaist of them all. But it was not feasible in 1917, and he sulked, furious that the Revolution had started without him.

Across the Atlantic Ocean, another banished expatriate, this one in New York City, was also absorbed in the news from his homeland. Each day in the early spring of 1917, Leon Trotsky would commute from the Bronx to a tiny basement newspaper office at 77 St. Mark’s Place, in the East Village. Within a year Trotsky would become, with Lenin, the other architect of Russia’s transformation into the Soviet Union. One of the more sublime headlines that would appear in a year full of them displayed New York’s robust self-absorption for all to see: bronx man leads russian revolution.

To call Trotsky a Bronx Man was an exaggeration—his passage through the borough was brief. But it was meaningful, as a recent book, Kenneth D. Ackerman’s “Trotsky in New York, 1917,” reveals. Trotsky and Lenin had known each other a long time, as allies and rivals, since the old days of Iskra—the spark. Trotsky had arrived in New York on January 14th, after being expelled from France and Spain, and found work at Novy Mir, a tiny Russian newspaper that was sold for a penny around the East Village and the Lower East Side. Remarkably, it employed not only Trotsky but Nikolai Ivanovich Bukharin, who would go on to become another important leader of the Russian Revolution until, like Trotsky, he fell to Stalin’s purges.

Despite its high-octane Bolshevism, Novy Mir was quite happy to accept advertisements from Budweiser, tobacco companies, phonograph manufacturers, banks, and other pillars of the American economy. That helped to pay the staff, who scrounged for lodgings where they could. The Trotsky family found a three-room apartment that cost eighteen dollars a month just west of the Bronx River, near the 174th Street subway stop on the old Third Avenue El. On his way to work, Trotsky often stopped at small deli in the Bronx, the Triangle Dairy Restaurant, which was serviceable for a cheap meal.

 

 

Edited October 17, 20204 yr by slow

Perfidni Britanci.

Pa nece biti bas da je drug Uljanov usao u Rusiju tek tako uz pomoc nemacke obavestajne sluzbe. Ima to predistoriju iz 1916 kada su Britanci preko svojih ljudi u Petrogradu napravili haos. Pa se onda raspala Ohrana koja je motrirala na nemacku sluzbu, ukljucujuci i Stokholm, jer su Nemci vec nesto slicno pokusavali 1915.

 

Ko je ono u Dumi 1916 optuziovao caricu za izdaju i sepratni mir? Pa onda ode i obdareni Raspucin, ono bese nekako to povezano sa britanskom ambasadom.

A sve se nekako poklapa sa napredovanjem Rusa u Anadoliju, blizu to naftnima izvorima i Carigradu.

Ono jesu Britanci obecali Carigrad caru ali obecali su Italiji svasta pa se ukazali crnokosuljasi u Fiume, popularnoj Rijeci, zbog neispunjenih obecanja i ukaza se duce.

@pasha

 

Kinezi imaju poslovicu:'Besmisleno je tražiti mačku u mračnoj sobi, pogotovo ako ona nije u njoj'.

 

Drugim rijelima stvar je jednostavna - do sada nije pronađen ni jedan jedini dokument koji bi potvrdio tezu da je revolucija izvedena na račun njemačkih para .., ponavljam ni jedan jedini.

 

Prvo je do takvog zaključka došla Следственная комиссия Временного правительства pod rukovodstvom ministra  P.N. Maljantoviča.

Gebelsovi ljudi su dva puta, i prije rata i u toku rata, preorali njemačke arhive - i ništa.

Džordž Kenan je 1956. u Journal of Modern History u prah razvalio tzv. Sisonove dokumente'.

Engleske arhive prekopala je Benetova i zaključak do kojeg je došla je da sve što tamo ima, sve je isfabrikovano kontraobavještajnim organima bjelih.

A prije nje sličnu ocjenu je dao i Žorž Bone, koji ne samo da je rovao po francuskim arhivima, nego i po njemačkim i engleskim i koji je na tu temu razgovarao sa emigrantskim istoričarem Katkovim i mnogim drugim.

Svoja istraživanja objavio je u famoznom  Revue historique.

 

U Rusiji tačku na ovo stavili su istoričari Starcev i Soboljev, nakon njih (ako se ništa novo ne pronađe) trubiti ili netrubiti o "njemačkom zlatu" (u akademskoj sredini, naravno) je u suštini pitanje profesionalne kulture i poštenja.

 

E a ti slobodno samo i dalje čitaj DW i Der Spiegel.

 

p.s. Finansiranje boljševika je inače veoma komplikovan istorijski problem i na tome se radi, ali ne dovoljno. Pare su dolazile iz raznih izvora … i to ponekad najčudnijih.

(evo ti jedna pikanterija)
Za pokrivanje troškova održavanja V Kongresa RSDRP u Londonu u posljednji čas je pare dao engleski srednji industrijalac Đozef Vels (radi se o 700 funti).
Nakon dolaska na vlast boljševici su mu 1918. vratili te pare … i danas Velsovi potomci imaju uokviren taj ček sa Lenjinovim potpisom i pratećim pismom sa iskazanom zahvalnošću za posuđene pare.

(Tako da sada možeš slobodno zaključiti da su bili i Velsovi plaćenici)

 

A što se tiče Bresta, da je mir odmah potpisan granica bi bila svjetlozelena linija, ali zahvaljujući Buharinu, Trockom i Ukrajinskoj Centralnoj Radi granica je postala tamnozelena linija:

 

 

  On 17. 10. 2020. at 21:48, apostata said:

E a ti slobodno samo i dalje čitaj DW i Der Spiegel.

E, ali:

  On 17. 10. 2020. at 21:21, pasha said:

....onda ode i obdareni Raspucin

 

A taman sam lepo zadremao....

Edited October 17, 20204 yr by namenski

E nemenski, pa ti nista ne znas, bio ruzan kao lopov ali dame su govorile da ima neke druge velike kvalitete. Ali da ne ulazimo sada u to.

Dakle, svapski talas i ogledalo lazu a oni die beste ali kripticni.

 

Ali sto Trocki podnese ostavku nakon potpisivanja Brest-Litovskog sporazuma?

 

Sto se tice finansiranje beljsevika, pa ima tu raznih prica. Eto kako je Trocki imao veze sa Vol Stritom dok je bio u Njujorku, pa kako je pusten kada su ga Britanci nahvatali u Halifaksu i ko je to urgirao iz Vlade Kerenskog...pa do toga da su boljsevici bili rak rana levicarskog pokreta u Rusiji pre 1914 sa kojom je Ohrana manipulisala na razbijanju levicarskih pokreta i ujedinjenja. Sto se videlo posle revolucije kada su postreljali konkurenciju od onih nesrecnih anarhista iz Ukrajine i juga Rusije sto su mislili da ce da stvore anarhisticki raj, to je Trocki posteno i na jednake casti skratio za glavu, do Menjsevika. Svako je tu dobio jedan metak, pravedno i proleterski.

 

Edited October 17, 20204 yr by pasha

Mada, posto je sve laz sto kazu svabe, meni nije jasno kako su Uljanov i njegovi drugari presli iz moga doma Svicarske do standarda Stokholma?

Oni su kao geistari bili, Kasper i drugari, Uljanov i drugari. Svabe nic da vide Uljanova od Alpa do Baltika.

Svaka njemu cast a i drugovima,. Uciti, uciti i samo uciti i onda je sve moguce.