Venecuela

[vememah]

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Both nations claim the 160,000-square-kilometer (62,000-square-mile) region, in a dispute that has intensified since ExxonMobil discovered oil there in 2015.

Another major discovery in Essequibo in October added further to Guyana's reserves, making them greater than those of Kuwait or the United Arab Emirates.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231124-us-defense-officials-to-visit-guyana-amid-venezuela-row-guyanese-vp

 

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by vememah

[Budja]

Sta da ti kazem @Roger Sanchez, nisam pratio. Nije mi bas jasno cemu to sa strane Venecuele sada kada su im skinuli sankcije i mogu Maduro-Kabeljo da nastave punjenjem dzepova svojih 20% podrzavaoca.

 

Zauzet sam nasom domacom dramom - "raskidom" izmedju predsednika i potpredsednice prvog dana nakon stupanja na duznost novog predsednika.

 

Kako funkcije potpredsednici odredjuje predsednik po Ustavu, predsednik Noboa je dekretom poslao potpredsednicu u ambasadu u Tel Aviv kao "saradnika u procesu trazenja mira izmedju Izraela i Palestine". 

 

Mislim, potpredsednica Veronika Abad je jos u kampanju bila nogirana od strane sadasnjeg predsednika Daniela Noboe koji ni sam ne zna kako je izabrao za izbore na kojima ionako nije ocekivao da pobedi.

 

On je, kao, neki centrista a ona je mesavina Mileija i Bolsonara.

 

 

[Venom]

U kom ratu može da pobedi nesrećna Venecuela? Čisto sumnjam da imaju za toalet papir za vojsku. Nek im neko kaže da se ne lože.

[Budja]

2 minutes ago, Venom said:

U kom ratu može da pobedi nesrećna Venecuela? Čisto sumnjam da imaju za toalet papir za vojsku. Nek im neko kaže da se ne lože.

 

Ovaj, kako mislis da od Caveza Maduro i Kabeljo drze vlast?

 

Hint: Egipat.

[Venom]

1 minute ago, Budja said:

 

Ovaj, kako mislis da od Caveza Maduro i Kabeljo drze vlast?

 

Hint: Egipat.

 

Zemlja koja je u stanju poluraspada već godinama nema resurse da ratuje s bilo kim. I ovako jedva preživljavaju.

[Roger Sanchez]

Siguran sam da vam treba jedna doza gujanske patriotske muzke za ovaj vikend

 

 

[vememah]

 

twitter.com/CIJ_ICJ/status/1730606454833295761

Edited December 2, 2023 by vememah

[Ayatollah]

On 30. 11. 2023. at 22:38, Venom said:

 

Zemlja koja je u stanju poluraspada već godinama nema resurse da ratuje s bilo kim. I ovako jedva preživljavaju.

 

Gvajana ima manje od 5 hiljada vojnika, nema ratnu avijaciju ni tenkove, od artiljerije uglavnom samo minobacače. Kakva god bila vojska Venecuele, gvajanska vojska im verovatno ne bi bila nikakav izazov. Brazilska vojska nije raspoređena da brani Gvajanu, već da spreči da venecuelanska vojska uđe u Gvajanu putem koji ide preko brazilske teritorije. E, ako bi se neko umešao, onda bi se stvari skroz okrenule.

[vememah]

Da, Venecuela ima skoro 40x više stanovnika od Gvajane, ako se neko spolja ne umeša, ovi će ih lagano pregaziti.

Edited December 2, 2023 by vememah

[Shan Jan]

Sutra ce referendum, ovo su pitanja:

 

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"Do you agree to reject by all means in accordance with the law, the line fraudulently interposed by the 1899 Paris Arbitration Award, which seeks to deprive us of our Guayana Esequiba?"

 

"Do you support the 1966 Geneva Agreement as the only valid legal instrument to reach a practical and satisfactory solution for Venezuela and Guyana regarding the controversy over the territory of Guayana Esequiba?"

 

"Do you agree with Venezuela's historical position of not recognizing the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice to resolve the territorial controversy over Guayana Esequiba?"

 

"Do you agree to oppose, by all legal means, Guyana's claim to unilaterally dispose of a sea pending delimitation, illegally and in violation of international law?"

 

"Do you agree with the creation of the Guayana Esequiba state and the development of an accelerated plan for comprehensive care for the current and future population of that territory, which includes, among others, the granting of citizenship and identity card? Venezuela, in accordance with the Geneva Agreement and International Law, consequently incorporating said state on the map of Venezuelan territory?"

 

Prva tri govore o odbacivanju prethodnih dogovora. Cetvrto je zelja za zahvatanjem resursa u moru o kojima je @vememah pisao. Peto je mozda najbitnije, govori o tome kako ce se pristupiti a to bi bila neka tiha aneksija, deljenje pasosa, paralelne institucije... otprilike kako se vodi "rat" izmedju Srbije i Kosova na Severu Kosova. U regionu zivi oko 250 000 ljudi (trecina Gvajane) i ima oko 160 000 km2 (dve trecine Gvajane, duplo vise nego Srbija npr.). Uglavnom region cini slabo naseljena prasuma.

 

Gvajana nema sanse da spreci Venecuelu u njenom naumu osim ako samo stanovnistvo nije toliko protiv ovoga da je spremno na gerilski rat (kakav je pogled lokalaca na ovo me bas zanima). Cini se da se svet ne tangira mnogo oko ovoga. Ono sto je lose je sto bi ovo napravilo presedan u Juznoj Americi koja ima dosta stabilne granice vec jako dugo.

[vememah]

Nadajmo se da je ovaj lik u pravu.

 

 

[Budja]

4 hours ago, Shan Jan said:

Sutra ce referendum, ovo su pitanja:

 

 

Prva tri govore o odbacivanju prethodnih dogovora. Cetvrto je zelja za zahvatanjem resursa u moru o kojima je @vememah pisao. Peto je mozda najbitnije, govori o tome kako ce se pristupiti a to bi bila neka tiha aneksija, deljenje pasosa, paralelne institucije... otprilike kako se vodi "rat" izmedju Srbije i Kosova na Severu Kosova. U regionu zivi oko 250 000 ljudi (trecina Gvajane) i ima oko 160 000 km2 (dve trecine Gvajane, duplo vise nego Srbija npr.). Uglavnom region cini slabo naseljena prasuma.

 

Gvajana nema sanse da spreci Venecuelu u njenom naumu osim ako samo stanovnistvo nije toliko protiv ovoga da je spremno na gerilski rat (kakav je pogled lokalaca na ovo me bas zanima). Cini se da se svet ne tangira mnogo oko ovoga. Ono sto je lose je sto bi ovo napravilo presedan u Juznoj Americi koja ima dosta stabilne granice vec jako dugo.

 

Sad akad mi objavimo rat Peruu za otmicu teritorije 1941. Uzeli nam 1/3 teritorije u Amazoniji.  

 

Bilo je nakon toga nekog pusakaranja par dana  1995., ali tada smo se hrabo  odbranili.

[Shan Jan]

 https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/04/americas/venezuelans-approve-takeover-of-oil-rich-region-of-guyana-in-referendum/index.html

 

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In a news conference announcing preliminary results from the first tranche of counted votes, the Venezuelan National Electoral Council said voters chose “yes” more than 95% of the time on each of five questions on the ballot.

 

[vememah]

Opozicija tvrdi da je bio veoma mali odziv, tj. da je izborna komisija prevarno računala odgovor na svako od 5 pitanja kao jedan glas. I novinari španske agencije EFE kažu da su birališta bila prazna.

 

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89 percent abstain vote on border dispute referendum in Venezuela, says opposition

Venezuelan opposition leader claims that the participation in Sunday’s non-binding referendum on the territorial dispute with eastern neighbor Guyana saw a turnout of 2,110,864 voters out of 20.69 million citizens, an abstention of over 89 percent.

The referendum included five questions. The first four were about the acceptance or rejection of international treaties and tribunals to settle the border issue with Guyana.

The fifth was about the agreement to annex the territory, the creation of a state called Guayana Esequiba, and the “accelerated plan” to grant citizenship to the local population.

The National Electoral Council (CNE) announced that they totaled 10,554,320 votes, without clarifying whether it corresponds to the number of voters or the number of questions answered.

Opposition leader Henrique Capriles said the authorities “did not dare to say it (turnout) was 2,110,864 voters” as there are five votes per voter, given there are five dichotomous questions for each participant, on X (formerly Twitter) on Monday.

Capriles, one of the anti-Chavistas who voted in the referendum, said that President Nicolas Maduro “turned” the day “into a resounding failure.”

According to CNE, 95.93 percent of Venezuelans who participated in the referendum responded affirmatively to the fifth question on annexing Guyana.

The insistent call by the Maduro government for “massive participation” in the referendum in defense of Essequibo, a territory of almost 160,000 square kilometers in dispute with Guyana reportedly received a weak response on Sunday.

EFE confirmed the low turnout at several polling stations that saw empty streets, a scene contrary to the festive atmosphere that the government expected.

https://efe.com/en/latest-news/2023-12-04/89-percent-abstain-vote-on-border-dispute-referendum-in-venezuela-says-opposition/

 

Edit: Evo i NYT i Rojters:

 

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Preliminary reports on Sunday suggested that turnout for the Essequibo referendum was far lower than expected, even though public sector employees had been required to vote. New York Times observers saw voting centers that were essentially empty, and experts and social media users reported similar scenes.

“This is a huge failure for the government,” Benigno Alarcón, the director of a research center at Andrés Bello Catholic University in Caracas that conducts voter surveys, said of the turnout. He added that it was likely that the government’s electoral council would falsely inflate voter turnout figures.

Mr. Gunson said the turnout was a setback for the ruling party and particularly for Mr. Maduro, even as they tried to present it as a triumph.

“It makes the chances of even a semi-free and fair election next year even more remote,” he said. “Since they can’t afford to go into one of those in this kind of state.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/03/world/americas/maduro-vote-essequibo-guyana.html

 

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There are more than 20 million eligible voters in Venezuela.
Reuters witnesses visited voting centers across the country - many had few or no people waiting in line.
In Maracaibo, in the oil-rich state of Zulia, poll workers told Reuters that turnout was low.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuelans-vote-referendum-disputed-territory-with-guyana-2023-12-03/

Edited December 4, 2023 by vememah

[vememah]

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Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said on Tuesday he would authorize oil exploration in an area subject to a dispute with Guyana, which said it would report his comments to the United Nations and the International Court of Justice (ICJ). (...)
The state companies will "immediately proceed to create the division PDVSA Esequibo and CVG Esequibo and immediately we'll proceed to give operating licenses for the exploration and exploitation of oil, gas and mines in our Guayana Esequiba," he said on state television.
Maduro also said he has proposed a law to the government-controlled legislature to create the new state, and companies already operating in waters in the area would have three months to leave.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/venezuelas-maduro-push-oil-exploration-disputed-territory-2023-12-06/

Edited December 6, 2023 by vememah