Teroristički napad u Parizu

[Caligula]

Cela prica o kolonijalizmu u ovom kontekstu je deo "FB filozofije" koja se razvija preko saljivih slika koje mahom prave stupidne simplifikacije, lazne argumente ili nesmesne doskocice

 

 

Ups.

 

Ja mislio ti govoris o monologu iz videa koji je upadljivo dvodimenzionalan te skandalozno simplifikuje situaciju i uopste citav kontekst u kojem se ljudi raznose u vazduh povlaceci u smrt druge ljude (desilo se i u Bejrutu nesto slicno par dana pre Pariza, ne znam jesi li pratio, ja nisam, tek naknadno sam saznao i to samo zahvaljujuci metastaziranju Pariske vesti).

 

Dovoljno je samo prebrojati francuske bombe koje su sejale  žoi de vivr po nekim tamo drugim zemljama u poslednjih par decenija.

 

Naime, ti bi bio dobar da reziras neku novu Sutjesku ili Neretvu, toliko dobro sazimas da to prevazilazi ovu raspravu, to postaje umetnost.

 

Btw. ovaj kjushjasov tekst je takodje dvodimenzionalan ali se covek (inace volim da ga citam) barem potrudio da ga uvije u sentiment, ucini ga licnim utiskom i udalji od racionalnog pristupa.

Edited November 22, 2015 by Caligula

[Ryan Franco]

Ne može, čini šta ti volja samo da znaš šta te čeka kad kreneš ad hominem. Na kraju krajeva, za diskusiju su neophodni i oni koji do krajnjih granica racionalizuju poteze zapadnjaka i uveravaju ostatak puka u spletove okolnosti, glupost kao pokretačku snagu tektonskih poremećaja itd

 

Pa gde sam ja krenuo ad hominem? Ti si se posrao po mom postu kao što i svaki put radiš, a onda me u sledećem optužio da te stalkujem. 

 

Evo jednog ad hominem napada: nemaš pojma šta pričaš i praviš salatu koja ti odgovara. Nemaš linkove, nemaš teorije nemaš ništa sem kurčenja i selektivnog plasiranja podataka.

 

Evo i jednog primera. U prethodnom postu si pomenuo al Nusru kao hvaljenu. Ja pitam gde. Ti kažeš bila je hvaljena (znači ponoviš isto) i onda pomeneš primer izjave iz 2014. PA TO NEMA VEZE SA ONIM ŠTO SI PISAO U PRETHODNOM POSTU?! Čuo sam i sam za Petrausovu izjavu

 

I onda ja ispadnem neki stalker teoretičara zavere, a ti se ponašaš upravo kao teretičar zavere. 

 

Ti recimo samo kažeš da nije  odgovornost na Bušu i Iraku već se prostire i na nove garniture koje su davale vetar u leđa svakakvim likovima u Siriji samo da su protiv Asada. 

 

 

 

Samo kažem da nije sva odgovornost na Bušu i Iraku već se prostire i na nove garniture koje su davale vetar u leđa svakakvim likovima u Siriji samo da su protiv Asada. 

 

To prihvatam en general. Ali mi dalje ostaje pitanje gde prestaje namera i koncept, a gde je izazivanje požara usled igranja vatrom.  

 

No bez obzira, onda ja napišem Amerika je odgovorna, a ti uletiš sa "al nije namerno, a?" Znači ta distinkcija je tebi mnogo bitnija nego meni.

[Muwan]

Islamska Država je prvih 4-5 godina svog bitisanja, rasta i razvoja provela kao klasična teroristička ćelija AQ koja nije imala bilo kakvu teritoriju pod kontrolom - samo underground mrežu i uticaj. Ako zatreba, preći će ponovo na taj nivo, imaju i know-how i zaledjinu, a biće i para dokle god je KSA.

 

To naravno ne znači da im ne treba zatrti državu™. Ali ko misli da će to biti gotovo za dve nedelje taj ozbiljno živi u svetu leptirova i medveda.

[harper lee]

Islamska Država je prvih 4-5 godina svog bitisanja, rasta i razvoja provela kao klasična teroristička ćelija AQ koja nije imala bilo kakvu teritoriju pod kontrolom - samo underground mrežu i uticaj. Ako zatreba, preći će ponovo na taj nivo, imaju i know-how i zaledjinu, a biće i para dokle god je KSA.

 

To naravno ne znači da im ne treba zatrti državu™. Ali ko misli da će to biti gotovo za dve nedelje taj ozbiljno živi u svetu leptirova i medveda.

 

Beowle, naravno da niko ne misli i ne veruje da ce "to" biti gotovo za dve nedelje ali tolerisati drzavu od 8 miliona stanovnika ciji je jedini smisao postojanja izvoz terorizma je pokusaj globalnog samoubistva. Ako nista drugo, zamisli samo olaksice u regrutovanju bombasa-samoubica kroz zvanicni drzavni skolski sistem koji neometano pohadja stotine hiljada dece.

[Lord Protector]

http://antiwar.com/blog/2015/11/18/peter-van-buren-on-stopping-isis-followthemoney/

Peter Van Buren on Stopping ISIS: Follow the Money

Peter Van Buren On November 18, 2015

Wars are expensive. The recruitment and sustainment of fighters in the field, the ongoing purchases of weapons and munitions, as well as the myriad other costs of struggle, add up.

So why isn’t the United States going after Islamic State’s funding sources as a way of lessening or eliminating their strength at making war? Follow the money back, cut it off, and you strike a blow much more devastating than an airstrike. But that has not happened. Why?

Donations

Many have long held that Sunni terror groups, ISIS now and al Qaeda before them, are funded via Gulf States, such as Saudi Arabia, who are also longtime American allies. Direct links are difficult to prove, particularly if the United States chooses not to prove them. The issue is exacerbated by suggestions that the money comes from “donors,” not directly from national treasuries, and may be routed through legitimate charitable organizations or front companies.

In fact, one person concerned ^[1] about Saudi funding was then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who warned in a 2009 message on WikiLeaks that donors in Saudi Arabia were the “most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.”

 

At the G20, Russian President Vladimir Putin said out loud what has otherwise not been publicly discussed much in public. He announced that he has shared intelligence with the other G20 member states which reveals 40 countries ^[2] from which ISIS finances the majority of its terrorist activities. The list reportedly included a number of G20 countries.

Putin’s list of funders has not been made public. The G20, however, include Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Turkey, the United Kingdom, the United States of America, and the European Union.

Oil

One source of income for ISIS is and has robustly been oil sales. In the early days of the air campaign, American officials made a point to say that the Islamic State’s oil drilling assets were high on the target list. Yet few sites have actually been targeted. A Pentagon spokesperson explained ^[3] that the coalition has actually been trying to spare some of ISIS’s largest oil producing facilities, “recognizing that they remain the property of the Syrian people,” and to limit collateral damage to civilians nearby.

The US only this week began a slightly more aggressive approach toward the oil, albeit bombing tanker trucks, not the infrastructure behind them. The trucks were destroyed at the Abu Kamal oil collection point, near the Iraqi border.

Conservative estimates are that Islamic State takes in one to two million dollars a day from oil sales; some see the number as high as four million a day. As recently as February, however, the Pentagon claimed ^[4] oil was no longer ISIS’ main way to raise money, having been bypassed by those “donations” from unspecified sources, and smuggling.

Turkey

One of the issues with selling oil, by anyone, including ISIS, is bringing the stuff to market. Oil must be taken from the ground using heavy equipment, possibly refined, stored, loaded into trucks or pipelines, moved somewhere and then sold into the worldwide market. Large amounts of money must be exchanged, and one to four million dollars a day is a lot of cash to deal with on a daily basis. It may be that some sort of electronic transactions that have somehow to date eluded the United States are involved.

Interestingly, The Guardian reported ^[5] a US-led raid on the compound housing the Islamic State’s chief financial officer produced evidence that Turkish officials directly dealt with ranking ISIS members, including the ISIS officer responsible for directing the terror army’s oil and gas operations in Syria.

Turkey’s “open door policy ^[6],” in which it allowed ^[7] its southern border to serve as an unofficial transit point in and out of Syria, has been said to be one of ISIS’ main routes for getting their oil to market. A Turkish apologist claimed ^[8] the oil is moved only via small-diameter plastic irrigation pipes, and is thus hard to monitor.

 

Others believe ^[9] Turkish and Iraqi oil buyers travel into Syria with their own trucks, and purchase the ISIS oil right at the refineries, transporting themselves out of Syria. Convoys of trucks are easy to spot from the air, and easy to destroy from the air, though up until now the U.S. does not seem to have done so.

A smuggled barrel of oil is sold for about $50 on the black market. This means several million dollars a day worth of oil would require a very large number of very small pipes.

So as is said, ISIS’ sources of funding grow curious and curiouser the more one knows. Those seeking to destroy ISIS might well wish to look into where the money comes from, and ask why, after a year and three months of war, no one has bothered to follow the money.

And cut it off.

Peter Van Buren blew the whistle on State Department waste and mismanagement during Iraqi reconstruction in his first book, Ghosts of Tom Joad: A Story of the #99 Percent ^[10]. Reprinted from the his blog ^[11] with permission.

 

Sve dok iranski tenkovi ne uđu u Rijad ovo ludilo neće stati 

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-11923176

Edited November 22, 2015 by slow

[Prospero]

Brate Slowe sto nikad ne okacis link ka izvoru vesti vec moram da guglam tekst ako hocu (a uglavnom hocu) da vidim i ko ga je objavio?

 

TT via LG G3

[Lord Protector]

Okačio

[Weenie Pooh]

Ali ko misli da će to biti gotovo za dve nedelje taj ozbiljno živi u svetu leptirova i medveda.

 

Upravo.

 

Beowle, naravno da niko ne misli i ne veruje da ce "to" biti gotovo za dve nedelje ali tolerisati drzavu od 8 miliona stanovnika ciji je jedini smisao postojanja izvoz terorizma je pokusaj globalnog samoubistva. Ako nista drugo, zamisli samo olaksice u regrutovanju bombasa-samoubica kroz zvanicni drzavni skolski sistem koji neometano pohadja stotine hiljada dece.

 

Kako niko ne misli kad pre dve strane imaš izjave britanskih generala koji tripuju da bi za dve nedelje moglo sve da se završi, pa posle lepo svi kući na tea & crumpets? I nisu jedini, američki mediji su prepuni takvih stručnjaka kojima je na svako pitanje odgovor "more dakka".

 

A regrutaciju novih terorista ništa ne pospešuje kao jedan kvalitetan bombing run, u idealnom slučaju praćen višegodišnjom okupacijom.

[Muwan]

Beowle, naravno da niko ne misli i ne veruje da ce "to" biti gotovo za dve nedelje ali tolerisati drzavu od 8 miliona stanovnika ciji je jedini smisao postojanja izvoz terorizma je pokusaj globalnog samoubistva. Ako nista drugo, zamisli samo olaksice u regrutovanju bombasa-samoubica kroz zvanicni drzavni skolski sistem koji neometano pohadja stotine hiljada dece.

Naravno, naravno. Samo sam se osvrnuo na ono što je bilo izrečeno na prethodnih par strana - sakupe se Ameri i saveznici i počiste ih dok dlanom o dlan. Ne biva to tako. Em će morati da čiste Raku, Mosul i slična mesta kuću po kuću, em će morati da ostanu tamo posle čišćenja i bore se za 'hearts&minds' sveže uništene zajednice. Zapad se toliko zaglibio u pokušajima da sunitski esktremizam iskoristi protiv svojih neprijatelja da sada više nema ni lakih ni jednostavnih rešenja.

[harper lee]

 

Kako niko ne misli kad pre dve strane imaš izjave britanskih generala koji tripuju da bi za dve nedelje moglo sve da se završi, pa posle lepo svi kući na tea & crumpets? I nisu jedini, američki mediji su prepuni takvih stručnjaka kojima je na svako pitanje odgovor "more dakka".

 

A regrutaciju novih terorista ništa ne pospešuje kao jedan kvalitetan bombing run, u idealnom slučaju praćen višegodišnjom okupacijom.

 

Oni najbolje znaju kako je nastao ISIL pa bi trebalo najbolje da znaju i koliko im treba da ga ugase.

 

Mada, takvi tekstovi obicno sluze da primire zaplasenu i frustriranu javnost na zapadu, ne verujem da i ovaj dobacuje dalje od toga.

[iDemo]

 

 

Pentagon spokesperson explained ^[3] that the coalition has actually been trying to spare some of ISIS’s largest oil producing facilities, “recognizing that they remain the property of the Syrian people,” and to limit collateral damage to civilians nearby.

To su radili i po Nemackoj 44/45te samo se tamo znalo ko i koliki procenat ima - verovatno je slicno i ovde. Plus ko i koliki deo uzima™ u postojecim uslovima. Bizmis je bizmis...

[FERNOUX H]

@wall

 

Verovatno sve po malo plus ono još ponešto:

 

Zamislimo stambeni blok. I u tom stambenom bloku je neki psihopata rešio da zapali zgradu. Neko se tom psihopati pridružio jer očekuje da uzurpira komšijinu susednu terasu, a neko pak očekuje pare od osiguranja. I sad ta zgrada polako gori. 

 

U stambenom bloku se veća šta učiniti pa se orgnizuju sastanci kućnih saveta, pa predstavnika kućnih saveta, pa se odvojeno prilazi zgradi da se polije vodom, pa se ispostvalja da je neko kupio od psihopate nameštaj iz zgrade i tako dalje. 

 

E zato ISIS još postoji. Zato što je nus pojava svih trenutnih poznatih međunarodnih odnosa i načina kako se odnosi uspostavljaju. Rat u Siriji bi bio samo još jedan običan rat da nije njih. 

 

Onda prosečan čovek kaže, ma nema šanse, i oni su deo tih odnosa i to je samo nečiji alat za neke ciljeve. Ali ljudi i danas tripuju da je nastanak fašizma nečiji izum. Ni ovi islamofašisti nisu nastali u epruveti.

 

ISIS je nastao kao posledica i sasvim je moguće da i njegov nastanak duguje zahvalnost neki kasnijim pogrešnim procenama. Ali sve upućuje da je ISIS danas potpuno nezavisan od svih poznatih kanala i ono u čemu je zasada njihova najveća pobeda je što ratuju protiv zapada koristeći njegova sredstva. Znamo da nije niko njih uzeo da sponzoriše nego da oni valjaju naftu ispod cene i "kupuju" ostale zemlje. Oni su dop, ostali su džankiji. 

 

Dobro ti ovo ;)

[iDemo]

ISIS je nastao kao posledica i sasvim je moguće da i njegov nastanak duguje zahvalnost neki kasnijim pogrešnim procenama. Ali sve upućuje da je ISIS danas potpuno nezavisan od svih poznatih kanala i ono u čemu je zasada njihova najveća pobeda je što ratuju protiv zapada koristeći njegova sredstva. Znamo da nije niko njih uzeo da sponzoriše nego da oni valjaju naftu ispod cene i "kupuju" ostale zemlje. Oni su dop, ostali su džankiji. 

war on drugs, war on terror, war on isis,..

nastavite nize...

[dillinger]

@McCabe

 

Evo samo iz ove godine dve lepotice:

 

 

Future of Syria's Nusra Front in question after commander killed

 

Al Qaeda's Syrian branch was left reeling on Friday after its military chief was killed in an apparent army air strike, adding to confusion over the future path of the most powerful group opposing both President Bashar al-Assad and Islamic State.

 

Abu Humam al-Shami, who trained in Afghanistan alongside plotters of the Sept. 11 2001 attacks on the United States and whose Nusra Front controls wide parts of northwestern Syria, was killed by an explosion at a meeting of commanders on Thursday in Idlib province.

 

 

The Sunni Muslim militant group, loyal to the successors of Osama bin Laden, is one of the two most powerful anti-Assad forces in Syria, having split from Islamic State which rejects al Qaeda as insufficiently radical.

 

Abu Humam's death comes at a time when the Nusra Front's future direction has been in doubt, even as it has expanded its territorial grip in the northwest by crushing mainstream, Western-backed groups.

 

Sources in the group have said it was considering severing its ties to al Qaeda, a move that could result in more support from Gulf Arab states hostile to both Assad and Islamic State

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/06/us-mideast-crisis-syria-nusra-idUSKBN0M128N20150306#koh42YkyGtwG1YQ4.97

 

 

 

Accepting Al Qaeda The Enemy of the United States' Enemy

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/middle-east/2015-03-09/accepting-al-qaeda

 

 

 

I usput da uživaš u op ed-u glasnogovornika Ahrar al Shama u WP:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-deadly-consequences-of-mislabeling-syrias-revolutionaries/2015/07/10/6dec139e-266e-11e5-aae2-6c4f59b050aa_story.html

 

 

 

 

 

Glupi, glupi Ameri.... doduše, u to bismo i mogli poverovati nakon ovako nečeg:

 

 

 

Rivals of ISIS Attack U.S.-Backed Syrian Rebel Group

 

In Washington, several current and former senior administration officials acknowledged that the attack and the abductions by the Nusra Front took American officials by surprise and amounted to a significant intelligence failure.

While American military trainers had gone to great lengths to protect the initial group of trainees from attacks by Islamic State or Syrian Army forces, they did not anticipate an assault from the Nusra Front. In fact, officials said on Friday, they expected the Nusra Front to welcome Division 30 as an ally in its fight against the Islamic State.

“This wasn’t supposed to happen like this,” said one former senior American official, who was working closely on Syria issues until recently, and who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss confidential intelligence assessments.

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/01/world/middleeast/nusra-front-attacks-us-backed-syrian-rebel-group.html

Edited November 22, 2015 by dillinger

[Ryan Franco]

Ja mislim da ti mene zajebavaš. Sam si potegao Al Nusru kao hvaljenu pre 2014. Odnosno pre metastaze ISISa. I to potkrepljjueš člancima nakon metastaze ISISa.

 

Od svega što si linkovao, koristan mi je jedino treći link. 

 

Četvrto samo potkrepljuje sve što sam već pisao.