Trump this!

[Anduril]

Kakav nonsens.

Ako HRC izgubi to je zato što je ona korumpirana kandidatkinja koja je personifikacija status kvo sistema koji progresivci preziru. Osoba koja je ekstremno hokiš za prosečnog demokratu a kamoli progressive movement. Osoba koja je držala govore Goldman Sahsu a potom pokušavala da se predstavi kao neko ko je bio tough on big banks. Osoba koja je na debati rekla kao odgovor na to da je establišment da je žena i da zato ne može biti establišment. Osoba koja je prvo bežala od Obame a onda da bi dobila njegove glasove promenila skroz kampanju kao da se kandiduje za third term. Osoba koja je za TPP rekla da je gold standard a većina Bernijevaca su anti trejd. Osoba koja na debatama citira Kisindžera i koja sama za sebe kaže da je moderate a onda se uvredi kad joj kažu da nije progressive ili da jeste samo kad joj odgovara. I onda se očekuje da se pruži podrška takvoj osobi samo zato što je preko puta big bad wolf. A strašni vuk je neko ko ima istoriju da govori ono što masa hoće da čuje i u suštini nemamo nikakav dokaz da bi bio gori predsednik od ijednog drugog republikanca kandidata. On zid neće sagraditi niti će sprovesti tu zabranu muslimanima niti će crncima nešto biti gore nego što im je sad ovako do jaja super u Barakovoj Americi. Ali poenta je plašiti ljude. Da izađu da glasaju za Hilari koja će da se igra rata po Sirijama i Libijama. Znači nije krivica demokratske partije koja se sklonila sa puta kako bi ispoštovala Hilari jer je njen red nego je krivica na gomili ljudi koji nisu nikad ni bili članove demokratske partije jer eto neće da glasaju za Hilari. Ne čak ni da glasaju za Trampa nego eto neće Hilari. E tako već mali Perica zamišlja glasače.

 

Sve ovo sto si naveo vazi i za Billa Klintona ili Obamu, a da ne govorimo o Busu. Prema tome, HRC nije nikakav hawk nego prosto centar/mejnstrim DP ili tzv. New Democrat koalicija. 

To sto se tebi to ne svidja je sasvim druga tema.

A ova predskazanja oko Trampa, ne bih dalje komentarisao osim da ocigledno ne znas kako populizam funkcionise u praksi. 

 

Pa da, logicno, umesto da se zapitas zasto umereni GOPovci i Bernijevci nece da glasaju za Hilari, lakse je okriviti ih da ne vide buducnost. Teofil 2012. Ua beli listici.

Zar nije logicnije ovako, sa stanovista biznisa i medija:

Ljudi ne vole Hilari personalno + vreme je za promenu, dobar deo glasaca je besan na status quo. Rizicno je da Hilari bude kandidat: za stabilnost drustva i za biznis interese. OK, krecemo u kampanju 2014 kako je Hilari los kandidat i kako demokrate ne bi smele da je kandiduju.

 

Daj covece informisi se bar malo kako funkcionise biranje kandidata i kakva je situacija bila sa HRC 2013/14:

http://www.people-press.org/2015/05/19/hillary-clinton-approval-timeline/

Tada situaciju oko Sandersa i Trampa niko nije mogao ni priblizno da predvidi...

Ne stvaraju se nacionalni kandidati preko noci - pogotovo u tom mejstrim delu partije. Korbin je zapravo dobar primer kako se to radi i kako moze da potraje 30 godina dok reformski kandidat saceka svojih 5 minuta.

A ne ocekivati da dodje neki partijski novajlija i preuzme onoliku koaliciju razlicitih interesa posle 2 godine. Ovo je politika a ne spisak lepih zelja.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Anduril

[theanswer]

Pazi meni je malo sokantno da uopste moramo da razgovaramo na temu toga da li je ono sto je Tramp govorio i ono na cemu je bazirao kampanju OK ili nije. Zamisli da se nesto slicno dogodilo negde u okruzenju. Recimo neko kaze da "Srbi u Hrvatskoj zele da razbiju drzavu. Eto ima ih i lojalnih ali..." I sad mi ovde pricamo da li je kada se kaze da je to sirenje mrznje hiperbola ili nije.

 

 

Ja uopste ne mislim da ilegalne imigrante treba automatski deportovati. Ovo je zemlja imigranata. Ja sam imao srecu da sam ovde ziveo kao mali i dobio papire tako da sam uvek mogao da biram da li cu da budem ovde ili u Srbiji. Bio bih potpuni smrad kada bih sada bio za to da se nekome uskrati sansa koju sam ja imao samo zato sto je bio kurate srece. Uostalom ovu zemlju su izgradili imigranti koji su bili spremni da grizu.

 

 

Sa Hillary se zna na cemu si i  moze se planirati. Ona ce biti malo veci hawk od Obame i to je to. Sa Trumpom se igra na slepo. Mozda je to samo ID a mozda je i bombardovanje neke zemlje u ovom ruskom stilu sa hiljadama poginulih. Mozda ce ludak kome se sve zasniva na licnim animozitetima okrenuti pricu i uci u nekakav latentni sukob sa Putinom. Jednostavno majmun ulazi u tenk i ostaje da se nadamo da nije mnogo lud.

 

Ti si taj koji je napravio hiperbolu tako što si dodatno posolio ovu Trampovu rečenicu. Ja sam rekao da je to bilo glupo sa njegove strane, mani me opet povlačenja nekih paralela sa okruženjem, konstatno se gubite u tim 90im i post 90im srbija balkan pričama. To tvoje poređenje nema veze sa vezom, rat je ovde bio pre 20 godina u Americi su Ameri ratovali sa Meksikom pre jedno 200 i nije priča o tome da žele da preuzmu državu niti bilo šta slično.

 

To što si ti protiv deportovanja imigranata je tvoj stav, ja ti samo kažem da je po zakonu deportovati ilegalne imigrante dakle ILEGALNE sviđalo se to tebi ili ne tako da taj Trampov stav nije protivzakonit. Ruski stil hiljade poginulih, dobro je da je to ruski stil a ne stil onih koji izbombardovaše gomilu zemalja i pobiše hiljade i hiljade ljudi. Kao što rekoh fearmongering, doći će Tramp i zaratiće a ovamo ga kritikuju što hoće da sarađuje sa Rusima itd. Totalni wtf.

 

Prema tome, HRC nije nikakav hawk nego prosto centar/mejnstrim DP

 

 

Ne bih te više zadržavao.

[MNE]

Pozdrav svima pratim ovu temu odavno pa reko da se priključim.

 

Izgleda se klintonkin "ekspert" za IT raspitivao na redditu kako da "sredi" neke mailove i to baš u periodu kad je State Dept tražio mailove od nje, čim su ga provalili obrisao je nalog na redditu (nije čuo za arhiviranje valjda).

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/53g5l7/breaking_this_is_allegedly_a_post_from_hillarys/

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/53fw9x/bleachbit_i_may_be_facing_a_very_interesting/

 

http://pastebin.com/tp81Anxs

 

Ako se ova priča aktuelizuje (a senat valjda već raspravlja o ovome ili bi trebalo brzo) to bi moglo da zakači ne samo HRC već i par jačih njuški iz FBI koji su je pokrivali.

[Budja]

Sve ovo sto si naveo vazi i za Billa Klintona ili Obamu, a da ne govorimo o Busu. Prema tome, HRC nije nikakav hawk nego prosto centar/mejnstrim DP ili tzv. New Democrat koalicija. 

To sto se tebi to ne svidja je sasvim druga tema.

A ova predskazanja oko Trampa, ne bih dalje komentarisao osim da ocigledno ne znas kako populizam funkcionise u praksi. 

 

 

Daj covece informisi se bar malo kako funkcionise biranje kandidata i kakva je situacija bila sa HRC 2013/14:

http://www.people-press.org/2015/05/19/hillary-clinton-approval-timeline/

Tada situaciju oko Sandersa i Trampa niko nije mogao ni priblizno da predvidi...

Ne stvaraju se nacionalni kandidati preko noci - pogotovo u tom mejstrim delu partije. Korbin je zapravo dobar primer kako se to radi i kako moze da potraje 30 godina dok reformski kandidat saceka svojih 5 minuta.

A ne ocekivati da dodje neki partijski novajlija i preuzme onoliku koaliciju razlicitih interesa posle 2 godine. Ovo je politika a ne spisak lepih zelja.

 

Obama?

 

2013/14 i na kongresnim izborima je Tea Party jos uvek dominirao, a tu je bio i neki Occupy.

Naravno da se moglo predvideti.

[iDemo]

Kad ce Korbin da se kandiduje za POTUSa?? 2024te??

[Prospero]

Why Europe secretly roots for Donald Trump

They won’t admit it in public, but some European politicians wouldn’t be too upset if The Donald wins.

 

By Matthew Karnitschnig 

9/21/16, 5:30 AM CET

 

 

BERLIN — Careful observers of European politics might be forgiven for asking if — behind the exclamation of shock and horror over the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency — they don’t detect the occasional wry smile or hint of giddiness when the conversation turns to the U.S. Republican presidential candidate.

 

To be sure, hardly a day goes by without some senior European official voicing grave concerns over the possibility that Trump might win the elections. European Parliament President Martin Schulz warned recently that Trump “would be a problem not just for the EU but for the whole world.”

 

French President François Hollande, who faces his own challenges with right-wing populism, recently said Trump “makes you want to retch.” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, abandoning his usual rhetorical temperance last month, called Trump a “hate preacher.”

And yet, in some quarters at least, the Trump cloud carries with it at least a sliver of silver lining. No European politician will say so publicly, but to some on the Continent, Trump presents a once-in-a-generation opportunity for emancipation from American influence.

 

To varying degrees, America-bashing has been a mainstay on both the Right and Left of European politics for decades. From GMOs to Guantanamo, from the drone war to the death penalty, European politicians have rarely had difficulty finding reasons to rail against the U.S.

 

In fact, the evils of U.S. influence is one of the few things that European politicians from nearly every slice of the political spectrum can agree upon. In Germany, for example, one is just as likely to see an “Ami Go Home” (Ami is German slang for American) poster at a rally for the Left party as at a gathering of the far-right Alternative for Germany.

 

Just as the EU served as a convenient whipping post for British politicians of all stripes in recent decades, culminating in the Brexit vote, the U.S. serves a similar purpose for many European politicians. Even those who profess a deep commitment to the transatlantic relationship often can’t resist using the U.S. as a rhetorical foil to deflect attention from their own vulnerabilities.

 

As long as moderate politicians occupy the White House, anti-American politicians will find it difficult to turn their rhetoric into reality. A Trump presidency would force a rethink.

 

Just last week, Jean-Claude Juncker, hailing the Commission’s crackdown on Apple’s Irish tax penalty in his State of the Union speech, declared: “Europe is not the Wild West.” Anyone listening knew that “Wild West” means America. “We are not the United States of Europe,” Juncker added, to applause from the assembled MEPs. “We are much more diverse in Europe and stronger.”

 

Most Europeans at the center of Europe’s political spectrum genuinely fear the consequences of a Trump victory and a weakening of the Transatlantic relationship. But others smell an opportunity too good to be allowed to pass.

 

As long as moderate politicians like President Barack Obama or U.S. Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton occupy the White House, anti-American politicians will find it difficult to turn their rhetoric into reality. A Trump presidency would force a rethink.

 

Here are five reasons some European politicians are secretly rooting for Trump:

The end of free trade: From the outset, European trade negotiators warned that anti-Americanism posed the biggest threat to a sweeping transatlantic trade deal. The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP), the free-trade pact being negotiated by the U.S. and Europe, has been on life support for months. A Trump victory wouldn’t just douse any remaining hope for success, it would put a stake through the heart of the negotiations.

 

Opponents of the deal see it as the Trojan Horse of trade, designed to give U.S. companies even more influence in Europe. Trump has argued the opposite, that free-trade deals hurt American workers. The bottom line: a Trump victory would put a free-trade pact between the U.S. and Europe of any kind firmly off the table.

 

The birth of an EU army: The U.S. has guaranteed Europe’s security for decades through NATO, effectively placing a giant security umbrella over most of the Continent. That reliance doesn’t sit well with everyone.

 

Though Europe doesn’t have anywhere near the military resources of the U.S. (American military spending accounts for about 75 percent of the NATO total), politicians in France and Germany are eager to get to work on a European defense force. The idea isn’t new and faces myriad hurdles, mainly the question of how to finance it on Europe’s shoestring budget.

 

Nevertheless, a Trump victory would give the initiative a major boost. As with the trade deal, Trump would likely be happy to let the Europeans fend for themselves. He has made no secret of his distaste for Europe’s reliance on the U.S. military. Conversely, few Europeans would welcome Trump as commander-in-chief. If he wins, proponents of a European army would finally have the compelling argument they’ve been looking for.

 

Breaking up big brother surveillance: Europe’s most emotional gripe about American influence in recent years has revolved around mass surveillance. Edward Snowden’s revelations have convinced Europe that nobody — be it Angela Merkel or the man on the street — is safe from the NSA’s digital dragnet.

 

Though the reality is somewhat less dramatic, that narrative has carried the day and many Europeans are convinced the U.S. is listening to their phone calls. Snowden, a man Trump argues should be executed, has become a modern-day Che Guevara for Europe’s youth. For all the transatlantic tensions around mass surveillance, Europe still cooperates with the U.S., mainly to get access to intelligence on Islamic terrorists. A Trump victory would be welcome news to those opposed to such cooperation.

 

Cracking down on Wall Street: The influence of Wall Street banks in Europe has long been a bee in the bonnet of Europe’s anti-American elites and populists alike. No conspiracy theory about the eurozone debt crisis, for example, is complete without dark hints about suspected machinations in New York’s financial district.

 

The recent brouhaha about former Commission president José Manuel Barroso joining Goldman Sachs illustrates the depth of the distrust. “Goldman Sachs was one of the organizations that contributed to the financial crisis in 2007-2009, so we wonder about this particular bank,” Juncker last week, explaining why he called for an investigation into Barroso’s move. Never mind that the EU has no specific ban on officials working for Goldman or that plenty of European banks, such as Deutsche Bank, also had a hand in the turmoil.

 

Justified or not, the bottom line is that Wall Street is considered a toxic force in Europe. Politicians on the Left have had Wall Street banks in their sights for some time. A Trump win would present a good opportunity for a crackdown.

 

Schadenfreude: The most powerful force driving Europe’s secret hopes for a Trump victory is simple schadenfreude. Most Europeans never bought the U.S.’s “city on a hill” claims of exceptionalism. And yet for decades, they’ve been subjected to American claims of moral superiority.

 

Not only did the U.S. liberate Europe from fascism, it also freed the Continent from the clutches of communism, goes a common refrain. To more than a few Europeans, President Trump would prove that the U.S. is really no different than the Continent: just as dysfunctional, just as vulnerable to its basest instincts and just as susceptible to the false promises of a demagogue.

 

[apostata]

Tramp ignorisao predlog Porošenka da se susretnu.

[/url]http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/20/trump-gives-ukraine-cold-shoulder-in-new-york-clinton-poroshenko/

Edited September 21, 2016 by apostata

[Anduril]

Obama?

 

2013/14 i na kongresnim izborima je Tea Party jos uvek dominirao, a tu je bio i neki Occupy.

Naravno da se moglo predvideti.

 

Pa da, Obama sa sve svojim levicarskim obecanjima koja su zavrsila u mejnstrimu. Neko bi rekao da je fakticki slagao, sto je bilo jasno i pre 4 godina, pa ipak, reizabran je dok se HRC cereci kao lazljivica.

Ko je pravi lazljivac i ko odskace od ostatka i kandidata i bivsih predsednika je upravo Tramp - kacio sam link (factcheck) i to je statisticki dokazano.

 

Drugo, Obama i Wall Street - informise se. Po tom pitanju HRC nije drugacija, posebno ne po kolicini donacija, retorici i politici. 

 

Ono sto ih mozda razlikuje je da ce HRC biti vise za otvorene intervencije dok Obama obavlja posao kroz skrivene operacije ili otvorena bombardovanja ali kasno Sirija, Libija, itd. No, daleko je HRC od Busa/Cejnija i tog tipa jastreba. 

 

I poslednje, Tea Party je nesto sasvim drugo od Trampa i nije imao sanse da pobedi nominaciju. Takodje, ogromna je razlika izmedju Sandersa unutar DP i Occupy pokreta van partije koji se vec izduvao u to vreme.

2013/14 je HRC imala podrsku od oko 60% i bila je logicni kadnidat mejstrima DP. Ne prave se kandidati tek tako a neko slican Obami se nece pojaviti za 50 godina.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Anduril

[marv]

...

[theanswer]

Dva sjajna polla od Monmouth-a za Hilari u 2 dana. Fl +5 i NH +9

[dragance]

Malo mi je čudan taj poll, rogue?

 

Više verujem ovima.

 

Clinton's lead in the electoral college has also narrowed considerably. From 341 projected votes two weeks ago, Clinton is now projected to win 303 electoral college votes, with Trump taking 235. If Trump wins all of the current swing states, he could take as many as 299 votes. He needs 270 to become the next president.

 

At the moment, all that stands between Trump and the White House are two states: Florida and North Carolina, whose combined 44 electoral college votes are enough to swing the election to the Republican candidate.

 

In both of these states, Clinton is currently projected to be leading by a very narrow margin. Four of the six most recent polls in Florida put the gap at three points or less. In North Carolina, the last three polls have all put the margin at two points or less.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/grenier-uselection-polls-sept21-1.3770798

[Eraserhead]

At the moment, all that stands between Trump and the White House are two states: Florida and North Carolina, whose combined 44 electoral college votes are enough to swing the election to the Republican candidate.

 

 

Ili drugim recima - You're fucked 'Murica

Edited September 21, 2016 by Eraserhead

[dragance]

Yep

[Prospero]

Kad bi izbori bili danas Trampu bi falio Kolorado da pobedi, pod pretpostsavkom da već ima i FL i NH - tako kaže Nejt Silver. Može i Pensilvanija ili Mičigen umesto Kolorada ali su mu tu manje šanse da preokrene.

 

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo#now

 

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Edited September 21, 2016 by Prospero

[theanswer]

Malo mi je čudan taj poll, rogue?

 

Više verujem ovima.

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/grenier-uselection-polls-sept21-1.3770798

 

Ovo baš i nije tačno. Ne znam koje su države još dali Trampu ako mu fale samo NC i FL. Uzgred ako mu samo to bude trebalo onda je election tossup. Ali Trampu treba još jedna država koja je lean D iz ovog skupa pod uslovom da očisti NC,FL,OH,IA i NV: PA,WI,NH plus ME-2 a da pritom ne izgubi NE-2 ili CO. Da budem velikodušan pa da ubacim i Mičigen.

Edited September 21, 2016 by theanswer