banecare1 Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Hahaha, teško. Oni uglavnom kad se dobro napiju votke reše da negde idu, na drugi kraj grada, na minus dvaes', obično oko 2 noću. uglavnom se prvo ide po jos votke pa na drugi kraj grada :D refilling je obavezan ako su privatne zurke po stanovima. jedina flasa koja je kod mene prezivljavala je kineska rakijestina baijiu. to cak ni rusi nisu mogli da piju
Paul Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 prica mi tip, neki dan sam pio sa nekim rusima, mal nisam umro...juce sam pio sa nekim srbima, bolje da sam neki dan umro :D
levi Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Danak neiskustvu. Zato što Rusi ne umeju da stanu dok se ne usvinje, a Srbi malo rakiju, malo viljušku pa boc i tako može do sutra
Prospero Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Aj i ovde, ima dve ruske teme, ne zna čovek gde ste u kom trenutku. The Dying Russians Masha Gessen ... Odgovor Forbes-ovog Marka Adomanisa (btw, jednog od mojih omiljenih novinara koji "pokriva" ruske teme): 9/03/2014 @ 8:02AM 4 035 views 8 Things Masha Gessen Got Wrong About Russian Demography Masha Gessen, a well-known Russian journalist and pundit, recently wrote a summary of Russian population trends for the New York Review of Books. As one of a very small number of people who closely follow Russian demography, and as someone who would like the issue to receive more attention, I was extremely disappointed. Gessen’s article is so littered with factual errors that it would actually subtract from a non-specialist’s knowledge of the topic: someone who knew nothing about Russian demography before reading the article would end up believing a number of things that are not true. I have no interest in engaging in a lengthy or ad-hominum attack on Gessen. What I would like to do, however, is point out the factual errors in the column so that people might have a modestly better understanding of the issues at play. Gessen: “After 1989, however, it fell and still has not recovered: despite financial inducements introduced by the Putin government, the Russian fertility rate stands at 1.61, one of the lowest in the world (the US fertility rate estimate for 2014 is 2.01, which is also below replacement but still much higher than Russia’s).” There are several errors here, so let’s unpackage them one at a time. First, Gessen tries to ignore the recovery in Russia’s fertility rate (“it fell and still has not recovered”) but if you look over the past few decades the improvements in recent years are actually a lot more impressive. Here’s what it looks like graphically: Gessen, for some reason, decided to provide out of date and inaccurate data for both Russia and US fertility, data that exaggerate the difference between the two. Russia’s fertility rate isn’t 1.61 (it was 1.71 in 2013) and the United States’ wasn’t 2.01 (it was 1.87 in 2013). The gap between Russian and American fertility has been progressively closing for the past 15 years and it’s likely that it will close even further over the next few years. There’s also the bit about Russia in comparative perspective. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your view of fertility, Russia’s birth rate is simply not that strange. Purely as a factual matter, it’s not one of “the lowest in the world.” Here is a list of the countries that, in 2012, had lower total fertility rates than Russia: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Portugal, Singapore, South Korea, Poland, Spain, Serbia, Greece, Hungary, Slovak Republic, Germany, Italy, Japan, Thailand, Macedonia, Austria, Latvia, Czech Republic, Cuba, Moldova, Cyprus, Lebanon, Bulgaria, Croatia, Switzerland, Romania, Ukraine, Estonia, Luxembourg, Slovenia, and Lithuania. That’s more than 30 countries, including a huge swath of the European Union. As if that wasn’t enough, there are another 10-15 countries (including China!) whose fertility rates are so close to Russia’s as to be indistinguishable. Gessen: “With the exception of two brief periods—when Soviet Russia was ruled by Khrushchev and again when it was run by Gorbachev—death rates have been inexorably rising” This, inexcusably, leaves out the large and sustained decrease in death rate over the past decade. Here’s what it looks like when depicted graphically. See if you think this looks like an “inexorable rise” Gessen: And then there are the deaths from external causes—again going from bad to worse. Gessen has for some reason again decided to totally ignore the substantial improvement registered over the past decade. Russians have been dying much less frequently from external causes than they used to. Things haven’t gone from bad to worse they’ve gone from “nightmarish” to “still really bad”. Put simply, if you imagine that Russian deaths from external causes have been on a steady upward trajectory you are imagining an alternate reality. Gessen: Another major clue to the psychological nature of the Russian disease is the fact that the two brief breaks in the downward spiral coincided not with periods of greater prosperity but with periods, for lack of a more data-driven description, of greater hope This is true only if you totally ignore the past ten years when life expectancy has grown rapidly. Indeed Russian life expectancy is currently at an all time high. Objectively, a Russian born in 2014 can, on average, expect to live longer than a Russian born during either of the two “periods of hope” to which Gessen refers. Gessen: Is it also possible that other post-Soviet states, by breaking off from Moscow, have reclaimed some of their ability to hope, and this is why even Russia’s closest cultural and geographic cousins, such as Belarus and Ukraine, aren’t dying off as fast? In reality Ukraine has been “dying off” faster than Russia every single year since 1995. And this gap has been growing, not shrinking. If the above graph doesn’t convince you, also consider that, in 2012, two of Russia’s post-Soviet neighbors, Latvia and Lithuania, saw more rapid rates of natural population decline than did Russia. So did famously reformist Poland. After under-performing during the 1990′s, Russia is currently one of the better performing countries in post-communist eastern Europe. Numerous other countries that have made much more progress in political reform now have long-term demographic outlooks that are substantially worse than Russia’s. As I hope the above demonstrates, there is no relationship whatsoever between a country’s “ability to hope” and its demographic stability. The Orange revolution did nothing to improve Ukraine’s demography, just as Russia’s gradual political retrenchment has done nothing to worsen its fertility and mortality trends. Some of the most demographically unstable countries in the world are boring social democracies like Germany, while some of the most demographically ascendant are horrible dictatorships like Saudi Arabia. Indeed the most catastrophic years of Russia’s population decline coincide precisely with Russia’s most intense period of economic and political reform. Contra Gessen, there is simply no mystery as to why Russia’s recent “period of greater prosperity” has not resulted in an improvement to the country’s demographic outlook. It has resulted in an improvement to the demographic outlook! The economic improvements of the past fifteen years have had an obvious and highly positive impact on Russia’s most basic demographic trends. Regardless of what you think of Vladimir Putin and his “vertical of power,” the simple fact is that Russia has seen a substantial and long-term improvement in the health of its population and pretending otherwise doesn’t help anyone.
Turnbull Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Ovo je potpuno druga, i mnogo logičnija priča.
Prospero Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Ili to ili da Maša prizna da je i Putinovo vreme zapravo vreme nade by TT
porucnik vasic Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Podsetio si me sa ovim. Ima ovde dosta Rusa na programu i prica mi jedan od najboljih drugara pre par dana kako sanja nocu da mu je istekla viza i da ga vracaju. Covek bio hirurg u Moskvi sa 25 i sahovski velemajstor. Dosao u US sa kintom. I ja reko ajde ne zezaj ne moze da bude tako lose. I on kao "Ne mozete vi to da razumete". Ja sam iz Srbije, oces da se kladis. Исто тако налетиш на постдока из Чешке или Италије и кукају на сав глас исту ту причу. Неће живи да се врате тамо одакле су дошли. Ти Русију без увреде уопште не можеш да капираш јер никаквог искуства са њом немаш. Има разних занимљивих ствари које су заостале из времена комунизма, али да ти неко ограничава шетање, да те народ гледа чудно што си странац није тачно.
apostata Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 (edited) Realno, ona povezivanje sa totlaitarizmom je overkill, ali tekst jeste zanimljiv i mislim da ga ne treba lako otpisati samo kao još jednu stavku u prepucavanju Rusi vs Ameri. Inače, jedna sveža vest iz majčice Rusije. Moj jako dobar prijatelj, inače rusofil i antiamerikanac, vodio klince na matematičko takmičenje u Rusiju i vratio se sa rečima - Rusiju može da voli samo onaj ko u njoj nikad nije bio, ili nije bio dalje od Moskve ili Pitera. Držali ih u nekom kampu deset dana, i strancima bio zabranjen izlaz iz kampa. Ima još detalja, ali nije stig'o da mi ispriča. Ne znam o čemu tvoj prijatelj priča, ali nek ode npr. u Voronjež ili Rostov n/d pa da vidim šta će poslije toga da kaže Moja žena je inače Ruskinja (iz Novorosijska na Crnom moru) i često idem tamo. Do sada smo uvijek išli avionom, a ovo ljeto odlučili smo se za auto. Zbog sranja u Ukrajini put nas je vodio kroz, Mađarsku, Slovačku, Poljsku, Bjelorusiju i iz nje naravno u Rusiju - 9463 km (tamo i ovamo, u ukupno 15 dana puta - dana je realno moglo biti manje, ali smo svako malo stajali). Stajali smo (i u nekim od tih gradova i spavali) Brjansk, Orel, Kursk, Belgorod, Voronjež, a pri povratku Volgograd, Saratov, Tambov, Tula i Smolensk. E sada (ti istina nisi napisao gdje on bio), ali u tim dječijim kampovima jeste strogo. Prije dvije godine moja nečakinja je dobila 21 dan u drugom po veličini (mislim na nekadašnji SSSR) dječjem centru Орлёнок ,Tuapski rejon, Krasnodarskog kraja (prvi je Artek na Krimu). Njezin boravak u tom centru se poklopio se u dan sa našim u Novorosijsku i mi nismo htjeli da odemo nazad a da je ne vidimo. Morali smo nabaviti i kod notara ovjerit saglasnost ženinog brata i njegove supruge, zatim dati zahtjev administraciji centra sa podrobnim opisom kako ćemo provesti dan sa nečakinjom i čekati jedan dan na odgovor i na kraju nečakinja se morala svaka dva sata javljati dežurnoj vaspitačici. U školi u koju ona ide djeca imaju kartice, koje provuku kada dođu i istog momenta njezini roditelji na telefon dobijaju obavještenje da je ona došla na nastavu, a isto je i kada ode (škola da se razumijemo nije privatna). U Krasnodarskom kraju (ali i u mnogim drugim oblastima i krajevima) maloljetnici mogu da budu bez roditelja napolju samo do deset sati, poslije toga ih policija hvata, obavještava socijalnu službu i roditelje, koji moraju platiti kaznu. Ono za cigarete je tačno - zabranjeno je pušiti svugdje (ali to je novi zakon pa se ne poštuje toliko - ja sam npr. otvoreno pušio), u prodavnicama su cigarete u zatvorenim ormarima (ako ih uopšte ima). Alkohol se prodaje od 11 ujutro do 22h (ali može se nabaviti, ako imaš veze sa mjesnima) i votka polako gubi bitku sa pivom, a kako i ne bi kada je pivo izvanserijsko. Za razliku od prije nekih 10 godina kada su tržištem vladali mastodonti poput Baltike ili Očakova, sad narod pije piva lokalnih malih pivara. Najviše se troši tzv. Живое пиво - bez konzervansa, nepasterizirano, nefiltrirano i neosvjetljeno. Kada ti ga iz bureta napune i hermetički zatvore flašu mora da se popije u roku od 3 dana, a ako kupiš fabričko pakovanje onda je rok trajanja u frižideru oko 30 dana. Pivo ima otprilike okus kao prvo pivo koje sam ja popio u I razredu gimnazije, na jesen '79. Evo mene u nečemu što se zove Пивная станция (ova je odmah pored punčeve kuće). Sa moje lijeve strane je 25 "pipa" iz koji se toči 25 vrsta živog piva. Pored jbn čipsa tu se prodaje (u kesicama iza mene) 15 tak vrsta sitno izrezane sušene ribe, kao i slane na rezence izrezane lignje ... ma jednom riječju skoro pa raj. I da ne dužim - ja sam u Rusiji živio i radio nekih 4,5 godine i to u najgore moguće vrijeme (poslije raspada SSSR-a), bio sam tamo skladištar i trgovac (direktor firme je govorio da sma najbolji istoričar među skladištarima i najbolji skladištar među istoričarima. Prodavao sam sve i svašta (od televizora do snikersa) i po Moskvi i po nekadašnjim kolhozima, po cijelom nekadašnjem SSSR-u. Kada je riječ o Rusiji najsjevernije mjesto u kojem sam bio je selo kopača zlata Omčak u Magadanskoj oblasti (manje od dva stepena od polarnog kruga) gdje sam dočekan ko Putin , a najjužnije je Adler na granici sa Abhazijom. Drugim riječima možeš o toj zemlji i tom narodu sudove donositi na osnovu krstarenja Volgom - moraš sa njima pojesti hektolitar boršća i tonu grečke i naravno popiti jedno 500 litara vodke ... i tek onda možeš reći da ponešto znaš o njima. Edited September 4, 2014 by apostata
Turnbull Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 Preneću mu ovu tvoju priču! On je inače bio u nekom relativno malom mestu vrlo blizu Kantovog Kalinjingrada.
namenski Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 put nas je vodio kroz, Mađarsku, Slovačku, Poljsku, Bjelorusiju i iz nje naravno u Rusiju - 9463 km (tamo i ovamo, u ukupno 15 dana puta - dana je realno moglo biti manje, ali smo svako malo stajali). Stajali smo (i u nekim od tih gradova i spavali) Brjansk, Orel, Kursk, Belgorod, Voronjež, a pri povratku Volgograd, Saratov, Tambov, Tula i Smolensk. Jbt, ovo je otprilike tura koju meracim ceo zivot sve smatrajuci da se tamo ne vredi zaputiti drugacije nego autom u sopstvenoj reziji, jebes avione i ostala sredstva. Smatrao sam da za zivota moga od toga nema nista. Za vakta pokojnog SSSR se nije moglo, posle nisam smeo. Ono, nije da nije: iz prica sa ljudima koji su poslom vozili iz Srbije tamo razne kombije i kamione nije mi se kretalo, iskren da budem nije mi se ni planiralo. Pricanja su se odnosila na devedesete, otprilike. Tako da, cenim, trebalo bi nesto vise cuti o tom vozenju kroz Rusiju.
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