Zaz_pi Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Ovo bi trebalo na temu o Siriji. Da, planirali su, tesko sada, da izazovu rat sa Sirijom tj. upad u Siriju pod laziranim napadom Sirije na Tursku. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-1GooSDwJ8 Ahmet Davutolu: “Prime Minister said that in current conjuncture, this attack (on Suleiman Shah Tomb) must be seen as an opportunity for us.” Hakan Fidan: “I’ll send 4 men from Syria, if that’s what it takes. I’ll make up a cause of war by ordering a missile attack on Turkey ; we can also prepare an attack on Suleiman Shah Tomb if necessary.” Feridun Sinirliolu: “Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit .” Ya?ar Güler: “It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what’re going to do is a direct cause of war.” ... Feridun Sinirolu: There are some serious shifts in global and regional geopolitics. It now can spread to other places. You said it yourself today, and others agreed… We’re headed to a different game now. We should be able to see those. That ISIL and all that jazz, all those organizations are extremely open to manipulation. Having a region made up of organizations of similar nature will constitute a vital security risk for us. And when we first went into Northern Iraq, there was always the risk of PKK blowing up the place. If we thoroughly consider the risks and substantiate… As the general just said… Yaar Güler: Sir, when you were inside a moment ago, we were discussing just that. Openly. I mean, armed forces are a “tool” necessary for you in every turn. Ahmet Davutolu: Of course. I always tell the Prime Minister, in your absence, the same thing in academic jargon, you can’t stay in those lands without hard power. Without hard power, there can be no soft power.
Zaz_pi Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Bilo bi zanimljivo sada napraviti medjunarodnu istragu o raketiranju koji se desio pre godinu, godinu i po, na tursku pogranicnu oblast kada je dosta ljudi stradalo.
Muwan Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Hold your horses my friends, dok se ne potvrdi autentičnost prevoda ili barem dok ne pronađem original da vidim koliko razumem. Ovo je potpuno nadrealno i teško je odlučiti se šta je veći skandal - da li ono o čemu pričaju subjekti prisluškivanja ili činjenica je neko u poziciji da ih opušteno prisluškuje što pojedinačno što na gomili.
Zaz_pi Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Hold your horses my friends, dok se ne potvrdi autentičnost prevoda ili barem dok ne pronađem original da vidim koliko razumem. Ovo je potpuno nadrealno i teško je odlučiti se šta je veći skandal - da li ono o čemu pričaju subjekti prisluškivanja ili činjenica je neko u poziciji da ih opušteno prisluškuje što pojedinačno što na gomili. Potvrdio, posto je rekao da je to curenje nemoralno. Ne znam sta je time mislio?!
Muwan Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Mislio sam na autentičnost prevoda na engleski. Ovo mora da se čuje u originalu pre nego što se donese bilo kakav zaključak, moguće implikacije su nenormalno ozbiljne. Verovatno je ovo ta "majka svih leak-ova" o kojoj se šuškalo prethodnih dana. Nijedan Gülenov medij još uvek ne izlazi sa stenogramom i mislim da postoji dobar razlog za to.
InvisibleLight Posted March 27, 2014 Author Posted March 27, 2014 FM davutoglu rekao da je objavljivanje snimka sastanka direktni napad na naciju da, jbt, kako je moguce da neko snimi sastanak na najvisem nivou?? pored sadrzaja snimka sama ta cinjenica je dovoljan razlog da vlada da ostavku. beowl, pa jel nije ovaj snimak sto je okacio zaz_pi sa youtuba to?
Muwan Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) FM davutoglu rekao da je objavljivanje snimka sastanka direktni napad na naciju da, jbt, kako je moguce da neko snimi sastanak na najvisem nivou?? pored sadrzaja snimka sama ta cinjenica je dovoljan razlog da vlada da ostavku. beowl, pa jel nije ovaj snimak sto je okacio zaz_pi sa youtuba to? Ne znam, nemam pristup YT Kako je moguće da neko može ovo da snimi? Pa, isto onako kao što je moguće da neko 24/7 prisluškuje premijera i kompletnu vladu, predsednika države i doslovce ali doslovce hiljade visokih zvaničnika, partijskih direktora, sivih eminencija, sinova i kćerki... Nemoguće je rečima opisati razmere toga. Btw priča se i o nekom kristalno čistom snimku na kojem najmlađi premijerov sin (onaj što je autom ubio opersku pevačicu na pešačkom prelazu) preti svojoj švalerki batinama. U poređenju sa ostalim leak-ovima ovo deluje smešno i benigno, osim jedne sitne tehnikalije: u trenutku kada je razgovor presretnut i snimljen, sinčić je bio u SAD (na lokalnom broju) gde inače živi, a švalerka u Švajcarskoj (na lokalnom broju) gde inače živi. Edited March 27, 2014 by beowl
Roger Sanchez Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) ELECTION DRIVEN WAR PLANS – IPART 1 Ahmet Davutoğlu:“Prime Minister said that in current conjuncture, this attack (on Suleiman Shah Tomb) must be seenas an opportunity for us.”Hakan Fidan:“I’ll send 4 men from Syria, if that’s what it takes. I’ll make up a cause of war by ordering a missileattack on Turkey; we can also prepare an attack on Suleiman Shah Tomb if necessary.”Feridun Sinirlioğlu:“Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.”Yaşar Güler:“It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what’re going to do is a direct cause of war.”--------FIRST SCREEN:Ahmet Davutoğlu: I couldn’t entirely understand the other thing; what exactly does our foreignministry supposed to do? No, I’m not talking about the thing. There are other things we’re supposedto do. If we decide on this, we are to notify the United Nations, the Istanbul Consulate of the Syrianregime, right?Feridun Sinirlioğlu: But if we decide on an operation in there, it should create a shocking effect. Imean, if we are going to do so. I don’t know what we’re going to do, but regardless of what wedecide, I don’t think it’d be appropriate to notify anyone beforehand.Ahmet Davutoğlu: OK, but we’re gonna have to prepare somehow. To avoid any shorts on regardinginternational law. I just realized when I was talking to the president (Abdullah Gül), if the Turkishtanks go in there, it means we’re in there in any case, right?Yaşar Güler: It means we’re in, yes.Ahmet Davutoğlu: Yeah, but there’s a difference between going in with aircraft and going in withtanks…SECOND SCREEN:Yaşar Güler: Maybe we can tell the Syrian consulate general that, ISIL is currently working alongsidethe regime, and that place is Turkish land. We should definitely…Ahmet Davutoğlu: But we have already said that, sent them several diplomatic notes.Yaşar Güler: To Syria… Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s right.Ahmet Davutoğlu: Yes, we’ve sent them countless times. Therefore, I’d like to know what our Chiefof Staff’s expectations from our ministry.Yaşar Güler: Maybe his intent was to say that, I don’t really know, he met with Mr. Fidan.Hakan Fidan: Well, he did mention that part but we didn’t go into any further details.Yaşar Güler: Maybe that was what he meant… A diplomatic note to Syria?Hakan Fidan: Maybe the Foreign Ministry is assigned with coordination…THIRD SCREEN:Ahmet Davutoğlu: I mean, I could coordinate the diplomacy but civil war, the military…Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s what I told back there. For one thing, the situation is different. Anoperation on ISIL has solid ground on international law. We’re going to portray this is Al-Qaeda,there’s no distress there if it’s a matter regarding Al-Qaeda. And if it comes to defending SuleimanShah Tomb, that’s a matter of protecting our land.Yaşar Güler: We don’t have any problems with that.Hakan Fidan: Second after it happens, it’ll cause a great internal commotion (several bombing eventsis bound to happen within). The border is not under control…Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I mean, yes, the bombings are of course going to happen. But I remember ourtalk from 3 years ago…Yaşar Güler: Mr. Fidan should urgently receive back-up and we need to help him supply guns andammo to rebels. We need to speak with the minister. Our Interior Minister, our Defense Minister.We need to talk about this and reach a resolution sir.Ahmet Davutoğlu: How did we get specials forces into action when there was a threat in NorthernIraq? We should have done so in there, too. We should have trained those men. We should have sentmen. Anyway, we can’t do that, we can only do what diplomacy…Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I told you back then, for God’s sake, general, you know how we managed to getthose tanks in, you were there.Yaşar Güler: What, you mean our stuff?Feridun Sinirlioğlu: Yes, how do you think we’ve managed to rally our tanks into Iraq? How? How didmanage to get special forces, the battalions in? I was involved in that. Let me be clear, there was nogovernment decision on that, we have managed that just with a single order.FOURTH SCREEN:Yaşar Güler: Well, I agree with you. For one thing, we’re not even discussing that. But there aredifferent things that Syria can do right now.Ahmet Davutoğlu: General, the reason we’re saying no this operation is because we know about thecapacity of those men.Yaşar Güler: Look, sir, isn’t MKE (Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation) at minister’sbidding? Sir, I mean, Qatar is looking for ammo to buy in cash. Ready cash. So, why don’t they justget it done? It’s at Mr. Minister’s command.Ahmet Davutoğlu: But there’s the spot we can’t act integratedly, we can’t coordinate.Yaşar Güler: Then, our Prime Minister can summon both Mr. Defence Minister and Mr. Minister atthe same time. Then he can directly talk to them.Ahmet Davutoğlu: We, Mr. Siniroğlu and I, have literally begged Mr. Prime Minster for a privatemeeting, we said that things were not looking so bright.FIFTH SCREEN:Yaşar Güler: Also, it doesn’t have to be crowded meeting. Yourself, Mr. Defence Minister, Mr.Interior Minister and our Chief of Staff, the four of you are enough. There’s no need for a crowd.Because, sir, the main need there is guns and ammo. Not even guns, mainly ammo. We’ve just talkedabout this, sir. Let’s say we’re building an army down there, 1000 strong. If we get them into that warwithout previously storing a minimum of 6-months’ worth of ammo, these men will return to us aftertwo months.Ahmet Davutoğlu: They’re back already.Yaşar Güler: They’ll return to us, sir.Ahmet Davutoğlu: They’ve came back from… What was it? Çobanbey.Yaşar Güler: Yes, indeed, sir. This matter can’t be just a burden on Mr. Fidan’s shoulders as it is now.It’s unacceptable. I mean, we can’t understand this. Why?SIXTH SCREEN:Ahmet Davutoğlu: That evening we’d reached a resolution. And I thought that things were taking aturn for the good. Our…Feridun Sinirlioğlu: We issued the MGK (National Security Council) resolution the day after. Then wetalked with the general…Ahmet Davutoğlu: And the other forces really do a good follow up on this weakness of ours. You saythat you’re going to capture this place, and that men being there constitutes a risk factor. You pullthem back. You capture the place. You reinforce it and send in your troops again.Yaşar Güler: Exactly, sir. You’re absolutely right.Ahmet Davutoğlu: Right? That’s how I interpret it. But after the evacuation, this is not a militarynecessity. It’s a whole other thing.SEVENTH SCREENFeridun Siniroğlu: There are some serious shifts in global and regional geopolitics. It now can spreadto other places. You said it yourself today, and others agreed… We’re headed to a different gamenow. We should be able to see those. That ISIL and all that jazz, all those organizations are extremelyopen to manipulation. Having a region made up of organizations of similar nature will constitute avital security risk for us. And when we first went into Northern Iraq, there was always the risk of PKKblowing up the place. If we thoroughly consider the risks and substantiate… As the general just said…Yaşar Güler: Sir, when you were inside a moment ago, we were discussing just that. Openly. I mean,armed forces are a “tool” necessary for you in every turn.Ahmet Davutoğlu: Of course. I always tell the Prime Minister, in your absence, the same thing inacademic jargon, you can’t stay in those lands without hard power. Without hard power, there canbe no soft power.EIGTH SCREENYaşar Güler: Sir.Feridun Sinirlioğlu: The national security has been politicized. I don’t remember anything like this inTurkish political history. It has become a matter of domestic policy. All talks we’ve done on defendingour lands, our border security, our sovereign lands in there, they’ve all become a common, cheapdomestic policy outfit.Yaşar Güler: Exactly.Feridun Siniroğlu: That has never happened before. Unfortunately but…Yaşar Güler: I mean, do even one of the opposition parties support you in such a high point ofnational security? Sir, is this a justifiable sense of national security?Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I don’t even remember such a period.NINTH SCREEN:Yaşar Güler: In what matter can we be unified, if not a matter of national security of suchimportance? None.Ahmet Davutoğlu: The year 2012, we didn’t do it 2011. If only we’d took serious action back then,even in the summer of 2012.Feridun Sinirlioğlu: They were at their lowest back in 2012.Ahmet Davutoğlu: Internally, they were just like Libya. Who comes in and goes from power is not ofany importance to us. But some things…Yaşar Güler: Sir, to avoid any confusion, our need in 2011 was guns and ammo. In 2012, 2013 andtoday also. We’re in the exact same point. We absolutely need to find this and secure that place. Ahmet Davutoğlu: Guns and ammo are not a big need for that place. Because we couldn’t get thehuman factor in order…via @Efekerem Edited March 27, 2014 by Roger Sanchez
*edited by mod Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Ja sam se danas vratio iz Istanbula i samo mogu da potvrdim ovo sto Beowl kaze. Bez izuzetka svuda vise plakati, zastave, zastavice, flajeri, kamioni sa muzikom koja se cuje i pre nego sto vidis kamion sa redovima zvucnika uz standardne akcije deljenja kafe, simita i ruza svim glasacima. Pricao sam malo i sa lokalcima, nije neki reprezentativi uzorak ali se uglavnom svodi prica na to kako oni misle da Erdogan moze sa njima kao da su Iran ili Severna Koreja ali da se tu malo zabrojao.
Prospero Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 nisam šokiran što su to planirali, cinizam i devijantnost politike bla bla, ali da su ih snimili, lolz...
Muwan Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 nisam šokiran što su to planirali, cinizam i devijantnost politike bla bla, ali da su ih snimili, lolz... Posmatraj to ovako: apsolutno ne postoji telefonski razgovor, VIP sastanak ili intiman izlet moćnih glavonja koji nije snimljen i pohranjen u arhivu da se iz nje izvuče po potrebi. Svi, ali svi su wired. Derin devlet batice, kakav ne možeš ni da zamisliš da postoji.
InvisibleLight Posted March 27, 2014 Author Posted March 27, 2014 Ne znam, nemam pristup YT :D prevideh ovo bi pomoglo, ako hoces videla sam negde tekst i na turskom al sad ne mogu naci btw, sto je erdoganu glas kao da je gutao helijum? : https://vine.co/v/MOXjmULpDzr
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