Distopije i utopije (u filmu, knjizevnosti, filozofiji i stvarnom zivotu)

[noskich]

Apropo ovog citata Tolstoja sjajan film koji docarava istu poentu:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zZmx09CKTo

[Indy]

Sad mi se gleda taj film.

[Verterdegete]

Jako isprazan i banalan film.

[prima]

Nisam citao tog jonasa, ali nekako verujem suprotno, ne da se ljudi nece svesti na 0 i 1, vec ce se tehnologija vozdignuti odatle u danas nezamislive nivoe kompleksnosti.

jasno mi je da verujes suprotno, navela sam tu pricu o smanjivanju ljudske rase kao zanimljivost zato sto se nisam susrela sa mnogo slicnih teorija, dok ovih o ozivljavanju i osvescivanju tehnologija ima itekako. a opet...

Ja sam, recimo, potpuno hipnotisan, ali HIPNOTISAN, posmatranjem nekih high end RF uredjaja. Oni ne lice na normalnu elektroniku, oni izgledaju kao da su pokupljeni u Area 51, vanzemaljska tehnologija. Najvise ocarava to sto izgledaju kao neka skoljka koja je izrasla na steni i u sebi formirala biser, potpuno organski proizvod, ziv organizam, ne neka drndava ljudskim rukama sacinjena tehnika. Alienware, indeed.Daj tome koju desetinu hiljada godina, give or take, nece se to nista razlikovati od biljke ili zivotinje. I tehnologija ce postati nevidljiva.

... kao puki produzetak ljudskog uma (ipak nisu alieni) tehnologije imaju povratni uticaj koji je, po meni, fun part.mozda se necemo smanjiti, ali... ?nesto zabavnije - setati se goli (supersurface by superstudio)?i soundtrack para-topik

[boshoku]

noscha zapravo radi u odeljenju za vrbovanje ovoga kulta, čiji lider doduše, znatno vreme provodi po beogradskim kafanama, ali bože moj, ideja je bitna:

Ona je malo živilište u kojem se neguju elementi duše i ljudskosti. U Porodici bistrih potoka razvija se emocionalnost i zagrljajnost (sic!).

[Indy]

... kao puki produzetak ljudskog uma...

Zasto "puki"...? Kako rece Fredric Brown...He straightened and nodded to Dwar Reyn, then moved to a position beside the switch that would complete the contact when he threw it. The switch that would connect, all at once, all of the monster computing machines of all the populated planets in the universe--ninety-six billion planets--into the supercircuit that would connect them all into the one supercalculator, one cybernetics machine that would combine all the knowledge of all the galaxies.Dwar Reyn spoke briefly to the watching and listening trillions. Then, after a moment's silence, he said, "Now, Dwar Ev."Dwar Ev threw the switch. There was a mighty hum, the surge of power from ninety-six billion planets. Lights flashed and quieted along the miles-long panel.Dwar Ev stepped back and drew a deep breath. "The honor of asking the first question is yours, Dwar Reyn.""Thank you," said Dwar Reyn. "It shall be a question that no single cybernetics machine has been able to answer."He turned to face the machine. "Is there a God?"The mighty voice answered without hesitation, without the clicking of single relay."Yes, now there is a God."Sudden fear flashed on the face of Dwar Ev. He leaped to grab the switch.A bolt of lightning from the cloudless sky struck him down and fused the switch shut.*

[noskich]

Kada se usavrsi tehnologija virtualne realnosti do nivoa na kojem je moguce biti zavaran pa poverovati da je virtuelnost realnost postojace mogucnost licne kvazi-utopije, koja je spolja posmatracu cista distopija. Dobrovoljno provesti u licnom matriksu ceo zivot. Meni licno nema razlike izmedju takve virtualnosti i ovog predloga Boozetown-a, ali opet sve je stvar perspektive. Jedina razlika je sto matriks ne bi bio ogranicen fizickim zakonima, vec kodom.Pomenuto u filmu: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Vanilla_SkyPosto nema saglasnosti o tome sta je utopija, a sta distopija (za sada?) nije moguce raditi na jednom one fits all predlogu. Zbog toga su veliki broj razlicitih koncepata i mogucnost da se svako slobodno organizuje u nesto za sta veruje da je najpogodnije za njega najbolja trenutna resenja.I tu je sada linija razdvajanja izmedju ljudi koji su iz ovog ili onog razloga unutar mainstream sustava i onih koji opet iz raznorodnih razloga nisu u stanju da se tom sustavu prilagode i traze alternativu. Sama svest da je alternativa moguca je veoma znacajna, jer ako ti neprilagodjeni nisu svesni alternative provesce zivot u pokusajima prilagodjavanja. Zbog toga mislim da je vazno siriti dijalog i informisati ljude o mogucnosti drugacijeg.Po principu svi su pozvani, a onaj ko nadje poruku relevantnom za sebe ce se prepoznati.

Edited June 10, 2013 by noskich

[noskich]

_{http://en.wikipedia....iki/Communalism "a theory of government or a system of government in which independent communes participate in a federation";http://en.wikipedia....Murray_Bookchin previous attempts to create utopia had foundered on the necessity of toil and drudgery; but now modern technology had obviated the need for human toil, a liberatory development. To achieve this "post-scarcity" society, Bookchin developed a theory of ecological decentralism.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism non-hierarchical, non-bureaucratic society without private property in the means of production. Libertarian socialists believe in converting present-day private productive property into common or public goods, while retaining respect for personal property.^[5] Libertarian socialism is opposed to coercive forms of social organization. It promotes free association in place of government and opposes the social relations of capitalism, such as wage labor.}

Edited June 12, 2013 by noskich

[noskich]

http://en.wikipedia....Good_GovernmentThe Councils have created their own laws and enforce them, applying punishment when deemed necessary, under a community-based system. The JBGs have declared a serious stance against the trafficking of drugs and people. Various policing groups monitor the traveling of suspicious people and vehicles in order to prevent these things from occurring. The offenders are usually warned the first time, then punished if they repeat the offense, or turned over to the appropriate authorities if they are not Zapatistas. The people being smuggled are often deceived into thinking that they are going to be delivered to the United States, but often are abandoned to die by the smugglers. When these smugglers are caught the victims are taken care of by the JBGs, as well as given the money and goods that were being carried by the smuggler. The smuggler is then warned initially, but if caught again faces punishment if a Zapatista or is turned over to the authorities if not. Any drugs confiscated are destroyed, and the same system of punishment is applied. These claims, however, cannot be verified, since government representatives (bureaucrats, police and army members) avoid their zone of influence to preserve the unofficial truce on the EZLN guerrilla movement.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TffwElt_UUhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_coffee_cooperativeshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatismo#Ideology Edited June 12, 2013 by noskich

[Verterdegete]

At The Seasteading Institute, we work to enable seasteading communities — floating cities — which will allow the next generation of pioneers to peacefully test new ideas for government. The most successful can then inspirechange in governments around the world.This is an audacious vision that will take decades to fully realize. We strongly believe in incrementalism – breaking this huge vision down into manageable, practical steps.

http://www.seasteading.org/

[noskich]

Odlicno, samo se nadam da ce se otici dalje od teoretisanja kao sto je Venus projekat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Venus_Project).

[noskich]

jeis ti citao The Diamond Age? ta komuna koju sad opisujes, koja se fokusira na nesto pa onda to prodaje da bi kupila druge potrepstine je nesto slicno onom sto Stephenson opisuje na pocetku te knjige. ali i tu dominira tehnologija koja sve to omogucava.

Kada posedujes tehnologiju koja moze da neograniceno transformise materiju onda ekonomija postaje irelevantna, svi su odjedanput slobodni da sa svojim vremenom rade sta god hoce. Zanimljivo je teoretski razmisljati cemu bi to sve moglo da vodi - utopiji ili cak i distopiji kao u animiranom filmu WALL-E, ali mislim da mi sada nemamo taj luksuz da teoretisemo previse kada se nalazimo u situaciji u kojoj se nalazimo - poprilicno urgentnoj (osipanje resursa, povecavanje populacije, zagadjenje, nejednakost, beda, manipulacija, kontrola...).A nadjoh ovde kratku listu takvih teoretskih pokusaja:http://en.wikipedia....i/Post-scarcity Utopias[edit]Fictional post-scarcity societies include varied settings, such as The Queendom of Sol in the series of the same name by Wil McCarthy, "the Festival" and agalmic economics from Singularity Sky and Accelerando by Charles Stross, and the United Federation of Planets from the Star Trek series.One of the earliest treatments of a transition to a post-scarcity society occurs in Pandora's Millions by George O. Smith, in which the development of a "matter duplicator" that can replicate almost any scannable object causes an economic collapse, and a return to a barter economy for the only remaining scarce resource: Skilled human labor. Chaos ensues until the inventors of the matter duplicator discover a substance that explodes when scanned by the duplicator beam. This new substance, "Identium," serves as a new medium of exchange for skilled labor, in a post-scarcity society otherwise primarily devoted to the pursuit of leisure, science, art, the occasional lawsuit, and the sale and exchange of "Certified Uniques" — objects whose chain of provenance can legally establish that they have never been scanned by a duplicator beam.Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy describes the beginning development of a highly automated society whose economy was to be based on caloric input/output and had only a few materials valued based on their scarcity. However, the inherent problems of such a system (such as its remaining capitalist elements or the difficulty in fixing the worth of academic work) are not resolved within the timeframe depicted in the trilogy.An intermediate step to a post-scarcity society is shown in Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age, where fabricator technology allows the growth of any item that one has design plans for - however, the poor receive a lesser amount of energy and resources per day to use, and thus have to wait longer for their items to be fabricated. Also, their items tend to be smaller, as they have no access to large-scale fabricators. This system, fueled by a centrally-distributed matter 'feed' is eventually replaced by the protean 'seed', which is able to take in raw materials from its environment to develop into whatever its program dictates. No longer bound to the aristocratically-controlled feeds, the society moves to a post-scarcity economy.James P. Hogan has written several works where post-scarcity plays a major role. Voyage from Yesteryear details the society of the "Chironians", embryo colonists of Alpha Centauri who have adopted such a lifestyle. Cradle of Saturn and its sequel The Anguished Dawn is mostly told from the perspective of the "Kronians", a pseudo-religion who colonize Saturn's largest satellite in the process of developing such a society. Both stories are driven by the difficulties of changing an existing economic paradigm, and postulate that a fresh start may be necessary to overcome old thinking about money and possessions.Rudy Rucker also dealt with this jarring transition in Realware in which humans receive an alien device that can instantiate any consumer product they have seen. This leads to a breakdown of the market, with stores blacking out their windows in a vain attempt to prevent people from 'copying' their products. Still, people who do buy the products find them instantly copied once out on the streets.Iain M. Banks' Culture series centers around an advanced spacefaring civilization that has used artificial intelligences to provide extremely abundant (and in daily practice unlimited) amounts of goods and services using advanced technology, describing a fully post scarcity society, which also attempts to influence other galactic societies towards the advanced cultural stage that freedom from greed and material need has allowed it. As Banks puts it in a 1994 article, "nothing and nobody in the Culture is exploited. It is essentially an automated civilisation in its manufacturing processes, with human labour restricted to something indistinguishable from play, or a hobby."^[14]John C. Wright's novel The Golden Age deals with a future voluntary libertarian society spanning the solar system called the Golden Oecumene. Due to technology, nearly everyone is immortal and tremendously wealthy except those living outside society due to exile or by choice. The Sophotechs, a superior line of computer intelligences, do most of the work, research, and simulations required by the society. Throughout the book the main character, Phaethon, has to face off against a technologically superior and unknown enemy while also dealing with a post-scarcity society which is afraid of death and instability more than anything else and does not believe his plight.In the novella Manna,^[15] Marshall Brain writes of a dystopian society ruined by advanced robotics as well as a utopian society enabled by it. The protagonist escapes life in a government-run dormitory because his father bought shares in the fictional "Australia Project". Dystopias[edit]There have also been fully dystopian science fiction societies where all people's physical needs are provided for by machines, but this causes humans to become overly docile, uncreative and incurious. Examples include E. M. Forster's 1909 short story "The Machine Stops", Kurt Vonnegut's Player Piano, and Arthur C. Clarke's 1956 novel The City and the Stars. Riders of the Purple Wage, Philip José Farmer's dystopian 1967 science fiction novella also explores some ramifications of a future wherein technology allows everyone's desires to be met. In Frederik Pohl's "The Midas Plague," resources and luxuries are so common, that the poor must bear the burden of consuming and disposing of the bounty, as well as working at meaningless jobs to produce more meaningless plenty; the rich, conversely, are allowed to live simple but comfortable lifestyles. In Stanislaw Lem's Cyberiad, a central motif is unbounded progress of technology. In The Highest Possible Level of Development civilization, the inhabitants have become passive, and the visitors have to shoo away machines trying to comfort them. In H.G. Wells' The Time Machine, the Time Traveller speculates, based on the Eloi, that mankind had been "armed with a perfected science" which reduced all dangers in nature, epitomized by the quote: "Strength is the outcome of need". In A for Anything, a science fiction novel by Damon Knight, the "Gismo" is a device that can duplicate anything—even humans or another Gismo. Since all material objects have become essentially free, the only commodity of value is human labor, and a feudal society and a slave economy is the result. The 2008 Pixar film WALL-E depicts what appears to be a somewhat humorous post-scarcity dystopia: humans are obese hedonists whose lives are spent entirely on floating recliners.Taj tehnoloski utopizam mi deluje kao jos jedna zabava za narod, samo se zavalite i cekajte, raj ce doci sa `progresom`. Jos jedan od raznorodnih nacina da se neutralise bilo kakva motivacija za drugacijim.`Sve je pod kontrolom, sve ce se resiti samo od sebe, vratite se na svoja mesta`. Edited June 13, 2013 by noskich

[noskich]

Cak i da se usavrsi takva tehnologija ne bi me uopste iznenadilo da ljudi koji vole da dominiraju nad ostalim ljudima uspostave monopol nad tehnologijom pa drugima nastavljaju da daju na kasicicu.Kada bi malo doveli u red populacionu politiku tako da se ukupan broj stanovnistva makar ne povecava ako se vec ne smanjuje, vec sa sadasnjom tehnologijom (da ima volje za to) svima bi mogli besplatno da se obezbede najminimalniji zivotni uslovi (hrana, soba 3 sa tri, odeca, medicinska nega i obrazovanje).

[noskich]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_anarchismBuddhism is rooted in three fundamental truths of the universe, the dharma seals, viz.:

1. Everything is in a constant state of change, nothing is permanent. (anicca)
2. That "suffering" exists everywhere in Samsara. (dukkha)
3. That everything is devoid of a "self." (anatta)

Thus, there can be no "perfect State" in Samsara. Any man-made institution is impermanent as well as imperfect, as people and the world change constantly. Further, no material wealth or political power will grant people permanent happiness—unenlightened satisfaction is an illusion that only perpetuates samsara. Individual liberty, while a worthy goal for anarchists, is nevertheless incomplete, to the extent that it precludes our common humanity, since there is, ultimately, no "self" that is inherently distinct from the rest of the universe.The Buddhist anarchist argues that both the state and capitalism generate oppression and, therefore, suffering. The former, the state, is an institution that frames the desire for power, and the latter, capitalism, the desire for material wealth. Trying to control other human beings, in the view of Buddhist anarchists, will only cause them to suffer, and ultimately causes suffering for those who try to control. Trying to hold on to and accumulate material wealth, likewise, increases suffering for the capitalist and those they do business with. Buddhism can also be viewed as inherently at odds with capitalism when the need to consume goods on an individual level is considered unnecessary and ultimately destructive.Compassion, for a Buddhist, springs from a fundamental selflessness. Compassion for humanity as a whole is what inspires the Buddhist towards activism; however, most, if not all, political groups tend to go against the Eightfold Path that steers Buddhist thought and action. Thus, anarchism, lacking a rigid ideological structure and dogmas, is seen as easily applicable for Buddhists.

[noskich]

http://books.google....8IC&redir_esc=yThe Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast AsiaFor two thousand years the disparate groups that now reside in Zomia (a mountainous region the size of Europe that consists of portions of seven Asian countries) have fled the projects of the organized state societies that surround them--slavery, conscription, taxes, corvee labor, epidemics, and warfare. This book, essentially an "anarchist history," is the first-ever examination of the huge literature on state-making whose author evaluates why people would deliberately and reactively remain stateless. Among the strategies employed by the people of Zomia to remain stateless are physical dispersion in rugged terrain; agricultural practices that enhance mobility; pliable ethnic identities; devotion to prophetic, millenarian leaders; and maintenance of a largely oral culture that allows them to reinvent their histories and genealogies as they move between and around states. In accessible language, James Scott, recognized worldwide as an eminent authority in Southeast Asian, peasant, and agrarian studies, tells the story of the peoples of Zomia and their unlikely odyssey in search of self-determination. He redefines our views on Asian politics, history, demographics, and even our fundamental ideas about what constitutes civilization, and challenges us with a radically different approach to history that presents events from the perspective of stateless peoples and redefines state-making as a form of "internal colonialism." This new perspective requires a radical reevaluation of the civilizational narratives of the lowland states. Scott's work on Zomia represents a new way to think of area studies that will be applicable to other runaway, fugitive, and marooned communities, be they Gypsies, Cossacks, tribes fleeing slave raiders, Marsh Arabs, or San-Bushmen. Edited June 20, 2013 by noskich