Dobra plata, dobro mesto, jeftin real estate

[Gojko & Stojko]

Ovo ti je izvor iz 1998. I to godine azijske finansijske krize. Vest za tebe - zivotni standard na Tajlandu se u proteklih 20 godina jako povecao. Toliko da je jedan milion Thai turista posetilo Japan prosle godine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Japan, 13% ukupnog broja turista u Japanu.

Ne moze bas ni svaki Australijanac da poseti Japan koliko je skupo.

Aha, toliko se povećao standard da ministar prošle godine u najboljem maniru Vučićevih naprednjaka ima pootrebu da tvrdi kao i ti ovde da turisti dolaze na Tajland zbog njihove odlične kulture, a ne zbog seksa. Pri tome većina seks radnica u Bangkok dolazi iz ruralnog Tajlanda, i pare šalje porodici. Jelć imaš neku statistiku koliko ih se vratilo iz Bangkoka u ruralne rajeve zato što se standard jako povećao?

 

Što se tiče odlazaka u Japan, Australijanci tamo masovno idu na skijanje zato što je dosta jeftinije nego ovde.

 

SaE

[noskich]

Aha, toliko se povećao standard da ministar prošle godine u najboljem maniru Vučićevih naprednjaka ima pootrebu da tvrdi kao i ti ovde da turisti dolaze na Tajland zbog njihove odlične kulture, a ne zbog seksa. Pri tome većina seks radnica u Bangkok dolazi iz ruralnog Tajlanda, i pare šalje porodici. Jelć imaš neku statistiku koliko ih se vratilo iz Bangkoka u ruralne rajeve zato što se standard jako povećao?

 

Što se tiče odlazaka u Japan, Australijanci tamo masovno idu na skijanje zato što je dosta jeftinije nego ovde.

 

SaE

 

Ti uporno pricas o zapadnjacima na Tajlandu, a pogledaj strukturu turista koji dolaze na Tajland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

1 China 8,757,466

2 Malaysia* 3,533,826

3 South Korea 1,464,218

4 Japan 1,439,629

5 Laos* 1,409,456

6 India 1,193,822

7 Russia 1,089,992

8 United Kingdom 1,003,386

9 United States 974,632

10 Singapore* 966,909

 

 

Jeste, Kinezi, Korejci i Japanci koji dolaze na paket aranzmane sa vodicima su seks turisti. 

Malezijci drugi, dolaze zbog seksa, kao da ga nemaju dovoljno u Maleziji, sve puca od prostitucije.

 

Od prvih 10 zemalja imas 2 zapadne na dnu, UK i US 8-ma i 9-ta.

Edited March 6, 2017 by noskich

[banecare1]

bkk je prilicno ok sto se tice prostitucije. da ne bude zabune, mislim u smislu da ne remeti boravak onima koji su u poseti iz drugih razloga. osim par lokacija na tajlandu gde su malo preterali, na ostalim mestima su te aktivnosti izolovane da ne smetaju porodicnim turistima. 

[roksi]

A cekaj da je taj papa Italijan, veoma omiljen medju narodom zbog raznoraznih razloga tokom 50 godina, pa da onda cela Italija zali za njegovom smrti i onda se nadje neko da javno lose govori o njemu onda bi ga mozda naterali da kleci. Nije ni to bas porednjenje na nivou, baba i zaba...

 

ti stvarno mozes da zamislis takvu situaciju danas u poljskoj ili italiji?!

 

pa eto, npr. nisam naisla na to da je human rights watch zabrinut za stanje stvari u IT ili PL po pitanju slobode govora/kritika crkve. dok vec primer tajlanda kao sto si i video iz linka, postoji.

 

lose ti je poredjenje.

[Gojko & Stojko]

Ti uporno pricas o zapadnjacima na Tajlandu, a pogledaj strukturu turista koji dolaze na Tajland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

1 China 8,757,466

2 Malaysia* 3,533,826

3 South Korea 1,464,218

4 Japan 1,439,629

5 Laos* 1,409,456

6 India 1,193,822

7 Russia 1,089,992

8 United Kingdom 1,003,386

9 United States 974,632

10 Singapore* 966,909

 

 

Jeste, Kinezi, Korejci i Japanci koji dolaze na paket aranzmane sa vodicima su seks turisti. 

Malezijci drugi, dolaze zbog seksa, kao da ga nemaju dovoljno u Maleziji, sve puca od prostitucije.

 

Od prvih 10 zemalja imas 2 zapadne na dnu, UK i US 8-ma i 9-ta.

Nisam ja ništa izmislio, evo ti ovde detaljniji izveštaj:

 

More British citizens visit Thailand than those of any other non-Asian country. In 2003 (the last year for which full figures are available) some 545,000 British residents arrived on visits. If you remove the children, and the British citizens visiting for business or reasons other than a holiday, you arrive at about 489,000—314,000 men and 175,000 women. That is 139,000 more British men than women coming to Thailand for a holiday—a gap of 28 per cent. The French gender disparity—60,500 more men than women—is 32 per cent, about the same as that of visitors from the US. The Japanese, at 35 per cent, is the highest—over 300,000 more men. If you take Europe as a whole (though there are some countries, like Finland and Sweden, with virtually no disparity) the gap is 25 per cent—494,000 more men than women.

 

A look at the major rich-nation visitors—those from the US, Australia, Europe and Japan—shows that 952,000 more men than women visited Thailand on holiday in 2003, a disparity of 28 per cent. (The 2004 statistics, not yet complete, will show a slight narrowing of this gap, but a leap of overall numbers of around 20 per cent.) This pattern is unique among major tourist destinations. Take, for example, the Caribbean, another popular tropical destination for economy tourism. Here, the disparity runs at 2 or 3 per cent—the only country with a significant gap in favour of men, nearly 11 per cent, is Cuba, the Caribbean country most notorious for sex tourism.

 

Do nearly a million men from the rich world come to Thailand to buy sex every year? The proposition deserves challenge. Men are capable of holidaying for reasons other than fornication with strangers. There is golf, after all. I asked Sasithara Pichaichannarong, director general of the Thai government’s office of tourism development, how she accounted for the discrepancy. “Businessmen!” she said promptly. “They’re counted as tourists in the statistics.” But I had factored them out—and in any case, only 31,000 Britons stated business rather than holiday as the purpose of their visit in 2003, less than 6 per cent of the total. So did sex explain the extra 950,000 men that arrive from wealthy countries? “Probably,” she said. “But sex tourism exists everywhere, not just in Thailand.” Not in such numbers, however. These extra men represent 10 per cent of all international arrivals in Thailand.

 

So what are these men doing in Thailand? I took the problem to John Koldowski, managing director for strategic intelligence at the Bangkok-based Pacific Asia Travel Association. He was understandably cagey: Pata is funded by government, airlines and the hotel industry. But yes, he confirmed, the gender discrepancy is unusual for the global tourist destinations. So these extra men are coming here for sex? “It’s that, or the golf,” said Koldowski.

 

And why so many Brits? He thought that the backpacker tourists might account for the gap—young British males, following the traditional trail through southeast Asia to see mates or relatives in Australasia. But the average British arrival is aged 40, I pointed out. “Backpacking is a state of mind, not an age thing,” pronounced Koldowski. That’s an advertising slogan, not an explanation, I said.

He became tetchy. “Look, if you are really researching the social factors of this, you should consider if men might come here because they’re fed up with the ball-breaking females they have to deal with at home. Maybe they want to meet the sort of gentle, beautiful, kind-hearted women they’ll find here.” This seemed to answer my question. The men are here for sex and, of course, golf. Or both. Female golf caddies who double as prostitutes are, anecdotally, one of the special features of the courses of Thailand.

 

Sex tourism is a significant part of Thailand’s economy. Tourism overall has been the country’s major foreign currency earner since 1982. In 2003, international tourism alone accounted for 309.26bn baht (£4.56bn) in receipts—about 6 per cent of GDP—ranking Thailand 15th in the world. That year, the extra adult male holidaymakers from around the world probably generated almost £1bn—over 1 per cent of Thailand’s GDP.

 

Kako god da okreneš, na kugli nema mesta gde se strancima prodaje seks više nego u Bankgoku i uopšte na Tajlandu, a prodavačice uglavnom stižu iz ruralnih predela koje si ti idealizovao, iz jednostavnih razloga jer tako mogu više da zarade:

 

The famous Thai smile hides a lot. The women of rural Thailand who descend on the tourist areas are driven by poverty. Around a third of the Thai population lives on less than $2 a day; in the agricultural northeast, where farmers are beset by drought and collapsing prices (chiefly because of the dropping of trade barriers with China), one in six people lives on less than $1 a day. A high proportion of prostitutes—over 60 per cent, according to some surveys—have left children at home in the countryside. In traditional Thai society, a girl’s first duty is the support of her family. Seventy-five per cent of prostitutes, according to one study, entered the trade after the failure of a relationship—”damaged goods” in a society that still puts a high premium on female virginity. Another common reason given for entering prostitution is the pressure of family debts.

 

And the gains to be had are fabulous. The price of sex from a street prostitute in Nana starts at perhaps 500 baht, a little over £7. That is a fortnight’s living costs in the countryside, or half a week’s salary for a Thai police constable. There is little doubt that the sex trade is vital to the economy of the poor northeast, which is another of the well-rehearsed justifications of the sexpats. Tales of bar girls who retire rich and happy to their home villages—some of them with a farang (foreign) husband—are many, and there is no social disgrace attached. “The land a girl child ploughs lies between her legs,” goes a saying from rural Thailand. But some women are broken in the process, and on my street, occasionally, you can see the damage that results.

 

Still, there is a grain of truth in the sexpat argument. Soi Nana is not like the grim red light districts of London or New York, with their backdrop of organised crime, violence, and drug use. The only fight I have seen on Nana was between drunken Englishmen. Amphetamines are widely used by the prostitutes, it is said, but not heroin. I have spotted one used syringe in the gutter in our four years here: there was worse to be seen nightly on the crack-infected street in west London where we used to live. Most women soliciting rich-world foreigners are relatively free agents. Their worst affliction appears to be the corrupt Bangkok police. In Thailand, the industry is not generally pimp-driven and, although technically illegal, its openness undoubtedly provides some protection for women. The sex tourist is more likely to visit a bar or a massage parlour than a traditional “closed” brothel (these appear to be more common for the domestic sex trade). NGOs say that condom use is close to 100 per cent, and HIV infection has been in decline in Thailand for a decade.

 

Plus, o izvozu u Japan:

 

That is an understatement. Everyone in the anti-trafficking industry is painfully aware that there is no real data at all. There are gruesome anecdotes and a few unimpressive figures for arrest and prosecution, but hard facts do not exist. You are told that each year many Thai women are sold into the sex trade in Japan, that they arrive thinking they are going to work as nannies or waitresses and find themselves saddled with “debts” of $25,000-45,000 and forced to work them off by yakuza gangsters in brothels known as “black jails.” Such was the report of human rights lobbyist Kinsey Dinan, published by the Harvard Asia Centre in 2002. But that article, like so many others, made no attempt to attach numbers to the stories. Dinan’s “several-year long research project” with Human Rights Watch merely says she “found that thousands of women from Thailand were being trafficked into… Japan each year.” That is it. The truth is there are no useful statistics on this issue in Japan, other than some on the female visa overstayers (10,000 from Thailand in 2001). But the NGO lobbyists need better than that to tickle the donors. There are much more frightening ones around, and they are widely quoted: Unicef’s estimate, for example, that 1.2m children (meaning under-18 year olds) are trafficked every year, a third of them in Asia.

 

 

Share & Enjoy

[noskich]

Nisam ja ništa izmislio, evo ti ovde detaljniji izveštaj:

 

More British citizens visit Thailand than those of any other non-Asian country. In 2003 (the last year for which full figures are available) some 545,000 British residents arrived on visits. If you remove the children, and the British citizens visiting for business or reasons other than a holiday, you arrive at about 489,000—314,000 men and 175,000 women. That is 139,000 more British men than women coming to Thailand for a holiday—a gap of 28 per cent. The French gender disparity—60,500 more men than women—is 32 per cent, about the same as that of visitors from the US. The Japanese, at 35 per cent, is the highest—over 300,000 more men. If you take Europe as a whole (though there are some countries, like Finland and Sweden, with virtually no disparity) the gap is 25 per cent—494,000 more men than women.

 

A look at the major rich-nation visitors—those from the US, Australia, Europe and Japan—shows that 952,000 more men than women visited Thailand on holiday in 2003, a disparity of 28 per cent. (The 2004 statistics, not yet complete, will show a slight narrowing of this gap, but a leap of overall numbers of around 20 per cent.) This pattern is unique among major tourist destinations. Take, for example, the Caribbean, another popular tropical destination for economy tourism. Here, the disparity runs at 2 or 3 per cent—the only country with a significant gap in favour of men, nearly 11 per cent, is Cuba, the Caribbean country most notorious for sex tourism.

 

Do nearly a million men from the rich world come to Thailand to buy sex every year? The proposition deserves challenge. Men are capable of holidaying for reasons other than fornication with strangers. There is golf, after all. I asked Sasithara Pichaichannarong, director general of the Thai government’s office of tourism development, how she accounted for the discrepancy. “Businessmen!” she said promptly. “They’re counted as tourists in the statistics.” But I had factored them out—and in any case, only 31,000 Britons stated business rather than holiday as the purpose of their visit in 2003, less than 6 per cent of the total. So did sex explain the extra 950,000 men that arrive from wealthy countries? “Probably,” she said. “But sex tourism exists everywhere, not just in Thailand.” Not in such numbers, however. These extra men represent 10 per cent of all international arrivals in Thailand.

 

So what are these men doing in Thailand? I took the problem to John Koldowski, managing director for strategic intelligence at the Bangkok-based Pacific Asia Travel Association. He was understandably cagey: Pata is funded by government, airlines and the hotel industry. But yes, he confirmed, the gender discrepancy is unusual for the global tourist destinations. So these extra men are coming here for sex? “It’s that, or the golf,” said Koldowski.

 

And why so many Brits? He thought that the backpacker tourists might account for the gap—young British males, following the traditional trail through southeast Asia to see mates or relatives in Australasia. But the average British arrival is aged 40, I pointed out. “Backpacking is a state of mind, not an age thing,” pronounced Koldowski. That’s an advertising slogan, not an explanation, I said.

He became tetchy. “Look, if you are really researching the social factors of this, you should consider if men might come here because they’re fed up with the ball-breaking females they have to deal with at home. Maybe they want to meet the sort of gentle, beautiful, kind-hearted women they’ll find here.” This seemed to answer my question. The men are here for sex and, of course, golf. Or both. Female golf caddies who double as prostitutes are, anecdotally, one of the special features of the courses of Thailand.

 

Sex tourism is a significant part of Thailand’s economy. Tourism overall has been the country’s major foreign currency earner since 1982. In 2003, international tourism alone accounted for 309.26bn baht (£4.56bn) in receipts—about 6 per cent of GDP—ranking Thailand 15th in the world. That year, the extra adult male holidaymakers from around the world probably generated almost £1bn—over 1 per cent of Thailand’s GDP.

 

Kako god da okreneš, na kugli nema mesta gde se strancima prodaje seks više nego u Bankgoku i uopšte na Tajlandu, a prodavačice uglavnom stižu iz ruralnih predela koje si ti idealizovao, iz jednostavnih razloga jer tako mogu više da zarade:

 

The famous Thai smile hides a lot. The women of rural Thailand who descend on the tourist areas are driven by poverty. Around a third of the Thai population lives on less than $2 a day; in the agricultural northeast, where farmers are beset by drought and collapsing prices (chiefly because of the dropping of trade barriers with China), one in six people lives on less than $1 a day. A high proportion of prostitutes—over 60 per cent, according to some surveys—have left children at home in the countryside. In traditional Thai society, a girl’s first duty is the support of her family. Seventy-five per cent of prostitutes, according to one study, entered the trade after the failure of a relationship—”damaged goods” in a society that still puts a high premium on female virginity. Another common reason given for entering prostitution is the pressure of family debts.

 

And the gains to be had are fabulous. The price of sex from a street prostitute in Nana starts at perhaps 500 baht, a little over £7. That is a fortnight’s living costs in the countryside, or half a week’s salary for a Thai police constable. There is little doubt that the sex trade is vital to the economy of the poor northeast, which is another of the well-rehearsed justifications of the sexpats. Tales of bar girls who retire rich and happy to their home villages—some of them with a farang (foreign) husband—are many, and there is no social disgrace attached. “The land a girl child ploughs lies between her legs,” goes a saying from rural Thailand. But some women are broken in the process, and on my street, occasionally, you can see the damage that results.

 

Still, there is a grain of truth in the sexpat argument. Soi Nana is not like the grim red light districts of London or New York, with their backdrop of organised crime, violence, and drug use. The only fight I have seen on Nana was between drunken Englishmen. Amphetamines are widely used by the prostitutes, it is said, but not heroin. I have spotted one used syringe in the gutter in our four years here: there was worse to be seen nightly on the crack-infected street in west London where we used to live. Most women soliciting rich-world foreigners are relatively free agents. Their worst affliction appears to be the corrupt Bangkok police. In Thailand, the industry is not generally pimp-driven and, although technically illegal, its openness undoubtedly provides some protection for women. The sex tourist is more likely to visit a bar or a massage parlour than a traditional “closed” brothel (these appear to be more common for the domestic sex trade). NGOs say that condom use is close to 100 per cent, and HIV infection has been in decline in Thailand for a decade.

 

Plus, o izvozu u Japan:

 

That is an understatement. Everyone in the anti-trafficking industry is painfully aware that there is no real data at all. There are gruesome anecdotes and a few unimpressive figures for arrest and prosecution, but hard facts do not exist. You are told that each year many Thai women are sold into the sex trade in Japan, that they arrive thinking they are going to work as nannies or waitresses and find themselves saddled with “debts” of $25,000-45,000 and forced to work them off by yakuza gangsters in brothels known as “black jails.” Such was the report of human rights lobbyist Kinsey Dinan, published by the Harvard Asia Centre in 2002. But that article, like so many others, made no attempt to attach numbers to the stories. Dinan’s “several-year long research project” with Human Rights Watch merely says she “found that thousands of women from Thailand were being trafficked into… Japan each year.” That is it. The truth is there are no useful statistics on this issue in Japan, other than some on the female visa overstayers (10,000 from Thailand in 2001). But the NGO lobbyists need better than that to tickle the donors. There are much more frightening ones around, and they are widely quoted: Unicef’s estimate, for example, that 1.2m children (meaning under-18 year olds) are trafficked every year, a third of them in Asia.

 

 

Share & Enjoy

 

Jeste batice, ali zar nije ovo sad radikalno drugacije od tvoje prethodne tvrdnje da 90% turista dolazi zbog seksa?

Prvo smo videli da je udeo zapadnih turista minoran u poredjenju sa azijskim, a zatim sada ova statistika pokazuje procentualnu razlliku u polu turista od 25-35%. Pri cemu pol ne dokazuje nuzno svrhu posete. 

 

Jel u Australiji nema prostitucije? Jel nema u Parizu, Njujorku... svim tim gradovima koji privlace turiste, i izmedju ostalih i seks turiste.

 

Koja je ovo godina za siromastvo podaci?

Edited March 6, 2017 by noskich

[noskich]

bkk je prilicno ok sto se tice prostitucije. da ne bude zabune, mislim u smislu da ne remeti boravak onima koji su u poseti iz drugih razloga. osim par lokacija na tajlandu gde su malo preterali, na ostalim mestima su te aktivnosti izolovane da ne smetaju porodicnim turistima. 

 

 

ti stvarno mozes da zamislis takvu situaciju danas u poljskoj ili italiji?!

 

pa eto, npr. nisam naisla na to da je human rights watch zabrinut za stanje stvari u IT ili PL po pitanju slobode govora/kritika crkve. dok vec primer tajlanda kao sto si i video iz linka, postoji.

 

lose ti je poredjenje.

 

Ovo sto pise jaran je sustina. Bilo da posecujes Tajland ili zivis tamo prostitucija i zakon o kralju ne uticu na tvoj svakodnevni zivot. 

A propo katolicizma u Evropi jasan primer kako to veoma moze da utice na tvoj zivot je zabrana abortusa. 

A za Human rights watch, sta kazu o polozaju Afroamerikanaca, Latinosa i americkih Indijanaca, pominju li ih?

Edited March 6, 2017 by noskich

[noskich]

Vec je bilo o tome na ovoj temi, ali da jos jednom ponovim.

Za sve negativne stvari na Tajlandu samo je jedan krivac - US. Oni su vratili kralja kada je Tajland bio de fakto republika. Oni su osnazili vojsku da bi bila branik borbe protiv 'poshasti komunizma'. Oni su izgradili vojne baze i stvorili industriju prostitucije.

[Gojko & Stojko]

Jeste batice, ali zar nije ovo sad radikalno drugacije od tvoje prethodne tvrdnje da 90% turista dolazi zbog seksa?

Prvo smo videli da je udeo zapadnih turista minoran u poredjenju sa azijskim, a zatim sada ova statistika pokazuje procentualnu razlliku u polu turista od 25-35%. Pri cemu pol ne dokazuje nuzno svrhu posete. 

 

Jel u Australiji nema prostitucije? Jel nema u Parizu, Njujorku... svim tim gradovima koji privlace turiste, i izmedju ostalih i seks turiste.

 

Koja je ovo godina za siromastvo podaci?

Tvoj entuzijazam za ruralni Tajland je neugasiv i izgleda da ama baš nikakvi podaci ne mogu da mu naude. Ja nisam tvrdio da 90% turista dolazi zbog seksa, preneo sam tvrdnje o razlici u broju muških i ženskih turista koji posećuju Bankgok/Tajland. Očigledno je da je razlika velika, veća nego za biilo koju drugu zemlju na svetu, čim čak i ministar nalazi za shodno da pobija široko rasprosttranjeno znanje da se o tome radi. Naravno da prostitucije ima u svim velikim gradovima sveta, ali se samo u slučaju Bangkoka govori o značajnom procentu u kome prostitucija učestvuje u ukupnoj privredi, a to je moguće zboog specifične tradicije, pogleda na seks, položaja žene u društvu i siromašnog ruralnog dela zemlje koji radi kao konstantan izvor radne snage za taj deo ekonomije.

 

Tačno, možda ne dolaze svi ti muškarci zbog seksa, možda dolaze zbog religije kao na Svetu Goru, možda dolaze zbog produžavanja penisa ili kisele vode, neki kao ti obožavaju ruralni Tajland i žele da se tamo nastane i da pobegnu od dosadne svakodnevice u anglofonom svetu. A kako to društvo u koga se presele zvanično gleda na ekipu od preksinoć 365 dana u godini:

 

Transgenders in Thailand, for example, still face discrimination – ranging from street slurs to a recent headline in the country’s most consumed newspaper. On Tuesday, Thairath covered the first LGBT parade at The Nice Festival in France with a derogatory headline calling it a “sexually ill” event for “wrong-gendered” people. Transgenders are often portrayed in the media as funny, foul-mouthed and often ridiculed individuals. Widely used terms like tuud and kratoey, though usually unmalicious, also carry negative associations. In 2010, The National Film Board banned ‘Insects in the Backyard’, a film featuring a transgender father because it contains scenes that are “pornographic and immoral.”

 

A year earlier, a Hollywood comedy, ‘Zack and Miri Make a Porno’, was banned by the Ministry of Culture who feared teens would imitate the character and make pornographic films. Entertainment media has indeed been making sex more confusing for Thais. We blur-censor cleavages in TV shows, only to watch many soap operas featuring rape scenes. In many cases, rape was used as a breakthrough for love between the protagonists. So, what message are they sending with these romanticized rapes?

 

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[Random]

G&S - Vazi, da tema jeste siroka i cuo sam za zvanincu statistiku o smanjenjom broju posjeta hitnoj sluzbi St Vincent bolnice otkad je uveden zakon (lock out laws).

Dio koji se presucuje je daleko veca smanjenost ukupnog broja posjeta tim djelovima grada, pa ispada da se procentualno nivo teze povredjenih u tucama zapravo povecao.

 

A na zadatu temu samo mogu da dodam da poznajem 3-4 muskarca koji vise od jednom godisnje posjete Tajland (Bankok i Pataju naravno) uglavnom bas zbog 'dobrih golf terena'.

S druge strane ne poznajem ni jednu zenu koje regularno posjecuju tu zemlju u sopstvenom aranzmanu. Uzorak jeste mali, a statistika je kao bikini.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Random

[noskich]

Pises o 'ruralnom Tajlandu' kao da je rec o jednoj homogenoj celini, a nije. Samo je jedan deo Tajlanda gde postoji problem sa 'siromastvom' i to je Isan, to jest severoistocni deo Tajlanda uz granicu sa Laosom. Zasto, zato sto zemlja ovde nije plodna pa postoji problem sa prinosima. Toga nema na jugu, severu i u centralnom delu. Pocivsi kralj je imao dosta inicijativa da se taj problem poboljsa i bilo je progresa, ali i dalje ovaj deo ne moze da se poredi sa ostalim pokrajnama Tajlanda.

 

E sad u vezi Isana i tu mozemo da diskutujemo o prirodi siromastva. Niko tamo nije gladan niti nema krov nad glavom. Imaju zemlju, kucu i osnovno. A za vecom zaradom se ide ili zbog neke stvarne potrebe (veliki broj dece, narkomanija, bolest) ili zbog fatamorgane komfora i luksuza. Jedna od jako losih stvari koje je Tajlandu doneo turbo-kapitalizam.

 

Neće baš da bude da samo "ima i toga". Skoro 90% stranih turista koji posete Bangkok su muškarci, ne postoji grad na svetu sa takvim odnosom. A šta misliš, od preko dvesta hiljada seks radnica koje rade u Bankgkoku, koliko ih je došlo iz ruralnih provincija napuštajući tvoj raj na zemlji?

 

SaE

 

Evo ovde si pisao da su 90% stranih turista muskarci, pa se ispostavilo da je odnos turista po polu u istrazivanju koje si ti postavio 25-35% u korist muskaraca, to jest 12 do 17% vise ucesca u korist muskaraca u ukupnom broju turista (62 do 67% su muskarci, a ostalo zene). Pri cemu naravno da opet podvucem pol ne dokazuje svrhu posete.

 

LGBT populacija je diskriminisana svuda na svetu, pa i na Tajlandu. Ali je istovremeno slobodnija na Tajlandu nego bilo gde drugde.

Ovi 'argumenti' za diskriminaciju LGBT populacije na Tajlandu su ti zaista smesni. Sta je neko negde napisao, jedan pojedinac i tradicionalna priroda Thai drustva.

Eto novosti za vas turiste, Tajland je duboko tradicionalno drustvo u kojem se parovi svih orijentacija ne ljube niti razmenjuju neznosti na ulici. Jednostavno se smatra nepristojnim to raditi. Nije to samo Thai karakteristika, tako je uglavnom svuda po Aziji. Za njih bi Mardi Gras bio parada loseg ukusa, kicha i vulgarnosti, a nema potrebe za dokazivanjem necega kada su LGBT prisutni svuda u svim porama drustva i sasvim jasno se svuda odredjuju kao takvi.

Edited March 6, 2017 by noskich

[noskich]

 

 

A na zadatu temu samo mogu da dodam da poznajem 3-4 muskarca koji vise od jednom godisnje posjete Tajland (Bankok i Pataju naravno) uglavnom bas zbog 'dobrih golf terena'.

S druge strane ne poznajem ni jednu zenu koje regularno posjecuju tu zemlju u sopstvenom aranzmanu. Uzorak jeste mali, a statistika je kao bikini.

 

Ici na igranje golfa iz Australije za Tajland bi bilo kao ici iz Saudijske Arabije u Srbiju radi peska.

Radi golfa tamo idu prevashodno Japanci jer u Japanu clanarina u golf klubu ide i preko milion dolara godisnje. Zasto, zbog nedostatka prostora. 

[Gojko & Stojko]

O ovom golfu se radi (opet na dnu bibliografije) - očigledno da je tema dovoljno stvarna da se njome bave na fakultetima:

 

Sex Tourism in Thailand

Recently, sex tourism has become extremely popular around the whole world. It is a profitable business for pimps and sex workers, and an exotic way of entertainment for consumers. ‘Sex tourism’ is a trip when tourists come to one or another country to purchase the sexual services, provided by local women and men. This kind of tourism gets its popularity and affectivity in the countries with high level of poverty and unemployment.[1] Sex tourism flourishes worldwide, but the ‘center’ of this industry is situated in Thailand. Millions of tourists from all over the world annually visit Thailand to experience the infamous sexual services. The most well-known place for consuming sex in Thailand is the city of Pattaya. Walking Street in the center of Pattaya is a ‘paradise’ for sex tourists; it is full of ‘go-go’ bars, massage salons, and sex workers offering their service just outside. In 2005, the US Department of State Human reported that the number of sex workers in Thailand could be defined as 200,000-300,000 people, and current statistics gives the number from 800,000 up to 2 million.[2]

 

...

 

The majority of women and children in Thailand enter sex trade because of financial and cultural reasons. Due to the high level of poverty in rural areas of Thailand, citizens are looking for any kind of income. With a huge development of sex tourism, a lot of women and children who experienced poverty and unemployment found the ability to make money in sex industry. The low financial support from the government pushes the population for accepting the most disrespectful kinds of employment.[8] In addition, the financial reason is supported by the culture. In Thai culture the family is the main value. Many women and children are expected to obey their family’s wishes and support their family members so they can survive. The Thai people believe that their duty is to provide their families with money, as when they were kids parents spend a lot of their income to raise them; and, consequently, the children feel needed to return the dept. According to Bishop and Robinson, “The earnings of one daughter in Bangkok can support an entire family in countryside, and many rural villages are made of such families.”[9] Therefore, as the income of a sex worker can be enough for living of the whole family, currently, a lot of families are willing to have daughters born. It is a family expectation for daughters to make sacrifices to their families even it means entering sex trade.[10]

 

Prostitution and Female Leadership in Rural Thailand: The Story of Phayao Province

For all the attention paid to the economic, social, and moral dimensions of prostitution in Thailand, no scholar has thus far conducted an empirical study of the relationship between the vice and political change in the countryside, where most sex workers come from. Using the case of Phayao Province in northern Thailand, I attempt to redress this lacuna. I show how rampant prostitution, the most acute social issue in Phayao, has ushered in the rise to power of one virtuous woman from an ethnic minority family—Ladawan Wongsriwong. Located on the economic and social margins of Thailand, many village families in Phayao traditionally relied on prostitution for income, causing a massive influx of young girls into the lucrative sex industry in Bangkok and abroad. In the 1990s, however, AIDS started taking a heavy toll on Phayao's small population. Against this backdrop, Ladawan emerged as a prominent female leader in the male-dominant rural society of Phayao by conducting an extensive issue-oriented campaign against prostitution. This case questions much of the literature on rural politics and female leadership in democratizing Southeast Asia that underestimates the importance of social issues.

 

Rethinking the Sex Industry: Thailand's Sex Workers, the State, and Changing Cultures of Consumption

In the second section of this paper I will explore the origins and maintenance of sex work in Thailand by linking bureaucratic policy with recent cultural shifts "on the ground." I emphasize the process through which sex work became so ordinary (tammada) in Thailand by considering Thai entertainment policies and patterns of state investment. This is important because how women and men are understood in policy itself—as breadwinners, as economic dependents, as capable of performing certain roles, as threats—affects gender dynamics in populations targeted by those policies. [7]

 

Što se tajlandske filmske cenzure tiče, to opet nisam ja izmislio - detalje vidi ovde.

 

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Edited March 6, 2017 by Gojko & Stojko

[noskich]

O ovom golfu se radi (opet na dnu bibliografije) - očigledno da je tema dovoljno stvarna da se njome bave na fakultetima:

 

 

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Ne znam sta mislis da postignes guglajuci na slepo postavljanjem linkova.

Opstepoznata stvar o industriji prostitucije na Tajlandu.  

Ima 150 do 200 hiljada osoba koje se bave prostitucijom na populaciju od 67 miliona.

Da li su svi turisti seks turisti, nisu. Da li je vecina, ne. 

 

Jeste cenzura zbog vojne uprave. Kao sto sam vec pisao pre zbog US.

 

Imas priliv imigranata iz okruzenja brojcano uporediv sa imigracijom u Australiju (prevashodno Laos, Kambodza i Burma) koji takodje doprinosi tome.

Na Tajlandu se izbeglice ne proteruju van zemlje i trpaju u koncentracione logore kao u Australiji. Ne, duz granice sa Burmom imas kampove izbleglica koje imaju slobodu kretanja. Imigrantima se uvek obezbedjuju smestaj i hrana tako da zarade koje su male dobijaju na ruke, cele.

Edited March 6, 2017 by noskich

[Gojko & Stojko]

Dok ne dođemo da je opšte poznato da je industrija prostitucije na Tajlandu razvijenija nego bilo gde na svetu, i da se radnice uglavnom regrutuju iz ruralnih krajeva‚Tajlanda. A ruralni Tajland je šta? - tvoje idealno mesto za život, kao fantastični zavičaj Radovana III, daleko od mrskog kapitaliste koji ubija dušu i sisa krv, daleko od zapadne neslobode i života uništenog kreditima i šoping centrima. 

 

PROSTITUTES IN THAILAND

According to Thai government figures from mid 2000s there are about 200,000 prostitutes in Thailand, with between 50,000 and 80,000 of them are under 18, and one percent of women in Thailand have been prostitutes at some point in their lives. These numbers reflect only the prostitutes monitored by the government (there are many that aren’t). According to other estimates, perhaps as many 1 million women work in Thailand’s sex industry and as many as 20 percent of all Thai women have worked as prostitutes at one time.

 

Many of Thailand’s prostitutes are from the poor provinces in the northeast. In the early 1990s, many of the non-Thai prostitutes were from the hill tribes in northern Thailand and Burma. These days many girls are

from southern China. Many of the Chinese girl service Chinese and Taiwanese men in Thailand on business or vacation.

 

Prostitution is considered by some as an easy way to make money. If a village woman goes to work in a large city or resort when she was in her late teens and twenties and sends home reasonably large chunks of money and returns when she in her thirties with enough money to live comfortably it is at least implied that she worked s a prostitute while she was away from her village.

 

In the mid1980s , the number of women in Bangkok estimated to be engaged in prostitution or in related services ranged from 100,000 to 1 million. Some observers noted that prostitution was firmly entrenched in modern Thailand as a result of historical, economic, and social factors. The majority of Bangkok prostitutes were rural migrants providing economic support to relatives back in the country, which was expected of Thai daughters within the extended stem family system. In other words, Thai prostitutes were not fleeing from a family background or rural society that oppressed women in conventional ways but were engaging in an entrepreneurial move designed to sustain the family units of the rural economy, which had come under increasing pressure. Since these women usually did not reveal the source of their remittances back to the village, their families could retain or gain status based upon their earnings. [source: Library of Congress]

 

According to the Encyclopedia of Sexuality: Thailand : “The demographic and socioeconomic characteristics of female sex workers have been reported in a study of 800 female sex workers from two provinces, one in the north and another in the south (van Griensven, Limanonda, et al. 1995). Only 1 percent of the women reported that they were younger than 16 years of age, and 11 percent reported starting working in commercial sex before the age of 16. The national origin was Thai for 85 percent of the women, with 8 percent Burmese and 1 percent Chinese, and 6 percent from a northern hill tribe. Most of the women, 80 percent, were from rural areas, while 89 percent had moved directly from their village of origin to an urban area primarily to work as sex workers. Most had low levels of education: 87 percent completed less than seven grades of school and 25 percent could not read or write. [source: Encyclopedia of Sexuality: Thailand (Muang Thai) by Kittiwut Jod Taywaditep, M.D., M.A., Eli Coleman, Ph.D. and Pacharin Dumronggittigule, M.Sc., late 1990s; www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/thailand

 

...

 

Reasons Why Thai Women Become Sex Workers

According to Encyclopedia of Sexuality: Thailand : One consistent finding across many studies of female and child sex workers is that a large number come from the northern provinces of Thailand. It has been theorized that these young women are especially in demand because of the long-held admiration for their lighter skin compared to their counterparts in the northeast or the south of the country. Others have theorized that working in the sex business is a tradition long present in the north. Formerly part of the kingdom of Lanna, this part of the country was more often at war with other kingdoms and had a history of being colonized. It was the custom to use women from the area to placate the occupying forces through the offering of sex services. [source: Encyclopedia of Sexuality: Thailand (Muang Thai) by Kittiwut Jod Taywaditep, M.D., M.A., Eli Coleman, Ph.D. and Pacharin Dumronggittigule, M.Sc., late 1990s; www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/thailand

 

“In addition to these perspectives, others have offered hypotheses that take into account sociocultural factors that are not unique to northern Thailand and are thus applicable to the general Thai culture as well. Lenore Manderson (1992), for example, eloquently argues that commercial sex, much like Buddhist monasteries, provides alternatives for both men and women to step out of their ordinary cultural roles. For men, the alternative is in the sexual realm; commercial sex provides a sexual outlet for the unmarried men and a way for married men to step temporarily outside their marriage while avoiding a divorce. For young women, she argues, the process of leaving behind (temporarily) their kinship as well as their “normal sexuality” (i.e., sex with affectional tics) gives women an alternative option to become self-sufficient. By supporting themselves and their family through the commoditization of sex, these young women achieve a degree of autonomy without having to enter the role of “mother” or marriage. Traditionally, mae chii undergo a similar process of abandoning attachments (in their case, worldly and sexual pleasures) in order to achieve autonomy in the spiritual realm. In a society in which women are expected to be mother or wife, female sex workers and mae chii reject both roles in the way they use (or do not use) their bodies and sexuality. [ibid]

 

Money As the Primary Reason Thai Women Become Prostitutes

Scholars, such as Khin Thitsa, Thomas Kirsch, and Charles Keyes, have looked even deeper into the Theravada gender construction for the cultural explanation of commercial sex. Keyes (1984) acknowledges that prostitutes have never been stigmatized in Buddhist societies because the women still have the opportunity to alter their behavior at some time; prostitutes and courtesans were indeed among the alms of women in early Buddhist society. Despite such tolerance in the Buddhist society, he suggests that the rise of commercial sex in contemporary Thailand has more to do with the emergence the new images of men and women which are associated with sex without any tempering moral irony found in traditional popular Buddhism. [source: Encyclopedia of Sexuality: Thailand (Muang Thai) by Kittiwut Jod Taywaditep, M.D., M.A., Eli Coleman, Ph.D. and Pacharin Dumronggittigule, M.Sc., late 1990s; www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/thailand

 

According to Keyes, the decision to enter commercial sex in Thailand today is the women's “participation in the increasingly materialistic culture of Thailand”, probably driven by the “secularized image of woman as sex object” . A number of scholars and activists have made similar comments. The growth of commercial sex in Thai society cannot be explained by the traditional gender roles in Buddhism; quite the opposite, it thrives on the increasingly consumerist and materialistic nature of the contemporary Thai culture. On the other hand, Kirsch (1985) argues that women's choice of entering commercial sex is not necessarily at odds with the range of “ideal” female images in Buddhism. In particular, the Buddhist-sanctioned mother-nurturer image of women has found a new expression in the new sociocultural context, where young rural women have expanded their means of providing for the family to a new arena, “in towns, cities, the nation, and beyond”.

 

The prostitute told AFP, "My family knows I need to work to get money to help them. They know what I'm doing. I think I will carry one with this job because I make more money—better than when I was a housemaid and I want to save money for my family too." Another said, “We do it because we want money, we want opportunities and we want to be able to more care of our families.

 

Another prostitute told AFP, “None of us dreamed of becoming a sex worker. To know someone for two minuted and then have to off with them. For me it’s not easy...But I’m proud to be a sex worker because I can feed my two sons and look after my family.” The sex worker who talked to the BBC said: “I wish I had never become a sex worker. I think some foreign men think it's okay to pay for sex here in Thailand, as they think the girls actually want to do this. But these men don't understand that most of us have no choice - we're just trying to earn money for our families, and waiting for a chance to leave."

 

 

 

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