Peti oktobar na bliskom istoku i arapskom svetu

[frn1782]

Pa cekaj malo, ako su svi sekaci glava koji zele Kalifat zasto je tu Asad najgori? Ili ISIS?

Asad je diktator koji bar pokusava neki privid sekularizma da sminka za javnost a ovo su sve likovi kojima vrednosni uzor 7.v.

[Bane5]

uzimas pogresne pretpostavke i onda ih uproscujes.

taman onoliko koliko ti treba da podrzis svoj stav.

 

tvoje prvo pitanje je besmisleno jer je jasna pozadina sukoba u siriji kada govorimo o vecini sunitskog stanovnistva i asadovog rezima.

ovo drugo je jos besmislenije jer je nekome i hitler bio dobar a kriv je za smrt miliona.

to sto neko imitira sekularizam (a daleko je od toga) nema nikakve veze sa prirodom njegovog vladanja.

asad je brutalni ubica, na celu je brutalnog sistema i zarad svog licnog polozaja spreman je na sumu najgorih zlocina, nista manjih od ovih koje cine IS.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Bane5

[dillinger]

Asad ''imitira sekularizam'' wtf? A šta je on zapravo, islamista?

[Bane5]

tako je. on je pripadnik religijske grupe. redovno se moli, ide u dzamiju...

 

sta to tebi smeta? njegovo je pravo da izrazava svoje religijske potrebe i sledi doktrinu religijske grupe kojoj pripada.

 

Edited October 15, 2014 by Bane5

[Ayatollah]

tako je. on je pripadnik religijske grupe. redovno se moli, ide u dzamiju...

 

sta to tebi smeta? njegovo je pravo da izrazava svoje religijske potrebe i sledi doktrinu religijske grupe kojoj pripada.

 

Mesas sekularizam i ateizam. To sto Asad ide u dzamiju i veruje u Alaha (ako veruje), ne znaci da on u organizaciji drzavnog aparata primenjuje principe Kurana i serijatsko pravo. On meni ne deluje kao neko ko bi hteo pravi islamsku republiku, da je takav, verovatno ne bi dozvoljavao zeni da se tako ponasa i oblaci, da ne govorimo dalje.

[Bane5]

Mesas sekularizam i ateizam. To sto Asad ide u dzamiju i veruje u Alaha (ako veruje), ne znaci da on u organizaciji drzavnog aparata primenjuje principe Kurana i serijatsko pravo. On meni ne deluje kao neko ko bi hteo pravi islamsku republiku, da je takav, verovatno ne bi dozvoljavao zeni da se tako ponasa i oblaci, da ne govorimo dalje.

 

Eh, da pratis ovaj topik detaljnije video bi je ovakva podela i zamena teze da je sekularizam koji se velica kao jedino iskljucivo dobro = svako odsustvo vere ukljucujuci i ateizam nesto sto se podrazumeva u tumecnju necije "podobnosti" i "pravednosti" u ovom ratu. O mesanju pojmova islamizam i dzihadizam da i ne govorim (narocito zbog sirine mogucih tumacenja)...

 

ps. Glede Asada jasno sam napisao da on sledi doktrinu svoje religijske grupe.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Bane5

[Gandalf]

...

na snimku koji je dao mekenzi su prikazani pobunjenici koji klanjanju pre bitke = islamisti. Asad klanja = islamista. ja klanjao u dzamiji za ramazanski Bajram = islamista.

 

(pri tome, "sekularan" nije kompliment.)

[x500]

na snimku koji je dao mekenzi su prikazani pobunjenici koji klanjanju pre bitke = islamisti. Asad klanja = islamista. ja klanjao u dzamiji za ramazanski Bajram = islamista.

 

(pri tome, "sekularan" nije kompliment.)

Gandalfe,

Cini mi se da je napravio podelu na prema primeni serijatskog prava u drzavi.

Ako se versko pravo primenjuje, to je islamisticka drzava.

U suprotnom, bez obzira da li se lider moli ili ne- sekularna drzava.

 

Ti si napravio jednakost izmedju tvoje molitve(klanjanja) i islamizma. To je po meni pogresan stav.

 

Pozdrav,

X500

[Gandalf]

Gandalfe,

Cini mi se da je napravio podelu na prema primeni serijatskog prava u drzavi.

Ako se versko pravo primenjuje, to je islamisticka drzava.

U suprotnom, bez obzira da li se lider moli ili ne- sekularna drzava.

 

Ti si napravio jednakost izmedju tvoje molitve(klanjanja) i islamizma. To je po meni pogresan stav.

nope. snimak prikazuje borce koji se mole pre bitke, sto je valjda dokaz necega. 

[x500]

nope. snimak prikazuje borce koji se mole pre bitke, sto je valjda dokaz necega. 

Gandalfe,

Jeste, to je dokaz da su ljudi, pa jos verujuci. Molitva sama po sebi nema veze sa islamizmom.

Pozdrav,

X500

[Gandalf]

Gandalfe,

Jeste, to je dokaz da su ljudi, pa jos verujuci. Molitva sama po sebi nema veze sa islamizmom.

Pozdrav,

X500

ne pratis radnju.

 

snimak koji je okacio mekenzi prikazuje jednu od sirijskih milicija koja se u nekakvom clanku navodi kao sekularna. dokaz kontra tog navodnog sekularizma je, izmedju ostalog, i to sto borci date milicije klanjanju pre bitke. ako je to dokaz islamizma, ja sam definitivno islamista.

 

(pri tome, mene zabole da li je data milicija sekularna ili ne.) 

[Bane5]

i zato sam ja postavio sliku asada koji se moli...

[Zaz_pi]

ne pratis radnju.

 

snimak koji je okacio mekenzi prikazuje jednu od sirijskih milicija koja se u nekakvom clanku navodi kao sekularna. dokaz kontra tog navodnog sekularizma je, izmedju ostalog, i to sto borci date milicije klanjanju pre bitke. ako je to dokaz islamizma, ja sam definitivno islamista.

 

(pri tome, mene zabole da li je data milicija sekularna ili ne.) 

 

Izmedju ostalog na snimku se vidi prica o saradnji sa dzihadistima, zanimljiva simbolika na transportetu i navodni mudzahedini, u sastavu jedinice, koji se mole. Sama molitva nije problematicna na snimku.

Ovaj primer sa Asadom je potpuno neverovatan, najblaze receno. :) Inace malo da se posvetimo ovoj slici:

 

Covek levo od Asad je Velika muftija Sirije, sunita, Ahmad Hasun, kojem su islamisti/dzihadisti ubili sina u oktobru 2011 jer nije hteo da se odrekne Asada, ubijali su oni jos sunitski svestenika, poput Muhameda Al-Butija, cuvenog sunitskog svestenika, starog 84 godina u trenutku samoubilackog napada, koji nisu hteli protiv Asada. Ahmad Hasun je zapretio SAD i EU, posle ubistva sina, da ne napadaju Siriju ili im se moze desiti isto. Treba reci da je pre toga covek bio izuzetno otvoren spram ostalih religija, cak govorio u Evropskoj skupstini na temu religijskog povezivanja. Ovo je njegov intervju sa Spigl, bas u vreme kada mu je ubijen sin:

 

But then imams who had come from abroad, especially Saudi Arabia, stirred things up with their inflammatory speeches. The news channels stationed in the Gulf states, Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, helped them by falsely claiming that the clergy was on the side of the anti-Assad protesters.", "And what has really improved in Egypt? Should we welcome the rise of Islamist parties? I believe in the strict separation of church and state."

"How many, 50 or 55? We're talking about an army of tens of thousands of men. But some of the radical Sunni imams from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf region are stirring people up, and unfortunately they are finding a few Sunni imams in my country who sympathize with them. For instance, they have pronounced a fatwa against me, because in their view I am betraying religion and am too moderate. But I'm not the only one on their hit list." "They set their sights on my innocent son Saria, a 22-year-old student who was always friendly to everyone, who was studying International Relations and did not want to make religion his profession. So much for the kin liability you've criticized elsewhere! Oh, if only the four killers had killed me instead.", "There are close ties between the Saudi royal family and the American White House. The Americans are often on the side of the oppressors. I am always on the side of the oppressed." "I see myself as the grand mufti of all 23 million Syrians, not just Muslims, but also Christians and even atheists. I am a man of dialogue. Who knows, maybe an agnostic will convince me with better arguments one day, and I'll become a non-believer. And if I'm enthusiastic about the opposition's political platform, I also might change sides.

[mackenzie]

Preneću pisanje libanskog Al-Akhbara i dio sure iz Kurana (9:36) na koji se pozivaju u videu, dijelu videa koji je i meni privukao pažnju.

 

[9:36] The reckoning of months with Allah has been twelve months by Allah’s ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth. Of these, four are sacred. That is the right creed. So wrong not yourselves therein. And fight the idolaters all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with the righteous.

 

Negdje se ovaj dio idolaters prevodi i kao disbelievers ili polytheists odnosno mnogobošci (pagani).

 

 

Harakat Hazm: America’s new favorite jihadist group

 

Harakat Hazm [the Steadfast Movement] boldly revealed itself on the Syrian arena after they published video clips showing they now had US-made TOW anti-tank missiles in their possession. The media has portrayed the group as a "secular moderate faction deserving support." However, Al-Akhbar reveals that Harakat Hazm has a much longer and different history than what has been reported.

Harakat Hazm’s name has been mentioned more than any other armed group ever since the appearance of US-made TOW missiles in the hands of their fighters. For now, the campaign to whitewash the group’s image in Western media will continue, especially after a report was published by the Washington Institute [for Near East Policy (WINEP)] entitled "Rebels Worth Supporting: Syria's Harakat Hazm."

The report concluded that the movement "appears to be a model for the type of group the United States and its allies can support with meaningful, lethal military assistance." This was based on the group’s "many qualities," especially since "it is a moderate/secularist faction, not an extremist/jihadist group."

However, an investigation into the truth behind the movement, its different factions, and reasons of its formation has led to conclusions different from its image, including its name and the date of its formation.

Harakat Zaman Mohammad

 

The real story of Harakat Hazm goes back to before the announcement of the formation of the Islamic Front. At the time, several projects were competing for external support. One such project was the formation of Harakat Zaman Mohammad, under a truncated slogan from a Quranic verse, "And fight against the disbelievers collectively. [9:36]" The project entailed the recreation of al-Farouq Brigades, in a new form, with a new leadership, and with massive support, in preparation for uniting all Islamist groups in Syria at a later stage.

The Muslim Brotherhood (MB) put all its weight behind the group, but the biggest obstacle at the time was the lack of a prominent personality to be their leader. A jihadi source told Al-Akhbar that Abdel-Qader al-Saleh was initially skeptical about the group, but after certain strategic calculations he came to accept them. (Al-Saleh was the military commander of al-Tawhid Brigade; he was later killed with the suspected involvement of Saudi Arabia.).

The Islamic Front option succeeded in taking the lead with the efforts of Hassan Abboud (Abu Abdullah al-Hamwi), commander of Ahrar al-Sham Movement, and Zahran Alloush, leader of Jaish al-Islam. The Zaman Mohammad Movement was shelved but was revived a month and a half later, in conjunction with the approaching zero hour for the battle against the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS). The idea was that the nascent movement would take the lead in northern Syria. A statement announcing their formation was agreed upon and would be signed by the joint command without mentioning any names.

The Hazm Movement at the time contained a larger number of groups, including Amjad al-Islam Brigade and the Noureddin Zanki Battalions. A jihadi source explained to Al-Akhbar that "the sponsors decided to postpone the announcement [of the group’s formation] at the last moment, without explaining why. Instead, they quickly announced the formation of Jaish al-Mujahideen, which incorporated several key groups from the Zaman Mohammad Movement, in addition to some smaller groups. This vacuum was to be compensated at a later stage, while Zaman Mohammad/Hazm Movement fighters would participate in the battles against ISIS, without announcing it. This was exactly what happened and the movement's name was mentioned as one of the groups participating in "the liberation of regiment 46 from ISIS." This came in a statement by Lieutenant Abdullah Awda, commander of the Northern Farouq Brigades, during a phone call from the Turkish borders to Al-Arabiya news channel. The battle for regiment 46 took place on November 17, ten days before announcing the formation of Hazm in the presence of Salim Idris.

Announcing Harakat Hazm’s formation

Finally, the decision came to announce the movement, but this time in secular garb. Its founding statement was redrafted to remove any jihadist content. Their original name of Harakat Zaman Mohammad was dropped in favor of its current name, although they use the acronym [HZM]. Its original slogan, "And fight against the disbelievers collectively," was replaced, but the verse was kept in their founding statement's introduction. The sword logo was kept. All its functions were given to the Farouq Brigades graduates and Salim Idris was brought in to represent the Supreme Military Command of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and give his blessings. The obvious conclusion is that the recent changes regarding Hazm's image were in preparation for its promotion as a model for "rebels worth supporting."

Hazm was composed of the following groups: Northern Farouq Brigades, Troop Nine Special Forces, First Armored Brigade, Faith in God Brigade, Abi al-Hareth Battalion (of the Hama Farouq Brigade), Ahrar al-Silmiya Battalion (Hama Farouq Brigade), Martyr Abdul-Rahman al-Shemali Battalion, Martyr Bakr Bakkar Battalion, Ahbab al-Rasoul Battalion, Martyr Hamza Zakaria Battalion, al-Rashid Battalion, Abu Asad al-Nimr Battalion, Ahbab Allah Battalion, al-Fateh Battalion, Infantry Brigade 60, Abbad al-Rahman Battalion, Abdul Ghaffar Hamish Battalion, Zaafarana Farouq Brigade, Martyr Abdullah Bakkar Battalion, al-Rastan Martyrs Battalion, Martyr Ammar Tlas Farzat Battalion, and Sawt al-Haq Brigades.

The commanders and al-Farouq Brigades

The Hazm movement's leadership is shared by five people; four of them came from the Farouq Brigades. They enjoy the strong backing from the Muslim Brotherhood,Turkey and Qatar. The commanders are:

-First Lieutenant Abdullah Awda (Abu Zeid): He is the general military commander of Harakat Hazm and held the leadership of the most armed groups, most recently as commander the Northern Farouq Brigade.

-Hamza al-Shemali (Abu Hashem): He is the head of Hazm's political council. Before the crisis, he worked as a property dealer in Kfar Aaya near Baba Amr in Homs. He was one of the founders of al-Farouq Brigades and remained as head of the public relations office until his resignation at the end of December 2013. He is known to have close relations with the MB and opposition sources maintain he has strong links to Qatari and Turkish intelligence agencies. Some opposition members accuse him of corruption and theft, in addition to being partly responsible for the fall of Baba Amr to the Syrian army.

-Bilal Attar (Abu Abdo Sham): Hazm's external relations officer had been "representative of the Hama Farouq Brigade in the executive office" and "the foreign relations officer in al-Farouq Brigades," until he was relieved of his position on January 11, 2014.

-First Lieutenant Murshid al-Khaled (Abul-Motasim): The military commander of Hazm's northern sector was one of the first officers to defect from the Syrian army. He moved around several groups and established the Saad Bin Abi Waqqas Brigade in the west of Aleppo's countryside with First Lieutenant Ahmed al-Fajj. The group was considered to be "one of the first brigades of the Free Islamic Army." Later, he established and commanded al-Atareb Martyrs Brigade then the First Armored Brigade. He later led the Troop Nine Special Forces and joined the Syrian Revolutionaries Front under Jamal Maarouf, along with his forces. He later left with his group to join Harakat Hazm. He still keeps the position of the General Commander of al-Farouq Brigades in Aleppo." On January 26 of this year, al-Khaled's name appeared in a statement by the Mujahideen Shura Council, as "Troop Nine commander and representative of Jaish al-Mujahideen and the rest of Aleppo's factions." The statement was entitled, "Initiative by the chief of security of the revolution in al-Sham", and, in addition to al-Khaled, it mentioned other names such as Zahran Alloush, sheikh Abu Abdullah al-Shami (emir of Fajr al-Sham al-Islamiya movement), and representatives of al-Nusra Front and Jund al-Sham.

-Mohammed al-Duhaik (Abu Hatem): Military commander of the southern sector. He established and led al-Iman brigade in Rif Homs. He has close ties to the MB and the FSA Command Council spokesperson Louay al-Mokdad. At the beginning of the year, an uproar was caused among armed groups in Homs, following news of Mokdad delivering 1.3 million US dollars in cash to Duhaik to "support the fighters in Homs and aim to lift the siege imposed upon them." Duhaik was accused of stealing the money.

Hazm’s international friends

It is certain that the TOW missiles did not reach Harakat Hazm directly from the US, but through "friendly countries," according to statements made by Abdullah Awda (the general military commander) to Liz Sly from the Washington Post, who was visiting one of Hazm's main bases in the Idlib countryside. Awda refused to give more details about the source of the missiles, but "the donors made clear to him that the delivery had U.S. approval."

It is likely that the Turkish government was the donor, especially in light of statements made by an opposition source to Al-Akhbar. "Harakat Hazm is the latest bet by the Turks, Qataris, and the Muslim Brotherhood. It is competing with the Syrian Revolutionaries Front (led by Jamal Maarouf) to win American support," he explained. It is known that the Syrian Revolutionaries Front had been the Saudi candidate for explicit Western support.

[ManicMiner]

ne pratis radnju.

 

snimak koji je okacio mekenzi prikazuje jednu od sirijskih milicija koja se u nekakvom clanku navodi kao sekularna. dokaz kontra tog navodnog sekularizma je, izmedju ostalog, i to sto borci date milicije klanjanju pre bitke. ako je to dokaz islamizma, ja sam definitivno islamista.

 

(pri tome, mene zabole da li je data milicija sekularna ili ne.) 

 

A jel' obicaj da se onoliko zaziva bozja pomoc pre ispaljivanja projektila, vidi se na kraju snimka? Da slicnu stvar rade hriscani sa stopostotnom sigurnoscu bih mogao da tvrdim da su u pitanju fanatici....

 

Ne provociram, stvarno me interesuje.