Peti oktobar na bliskom istoku i arapskom svetu

[Tresko]

Inače, danas čitam u Corriere della Sera, da "oslobodioci" već prave dilove sa pobunjenicima u Libiji. Daćemo vam oružje, daćemo vam opremu, a vi nama da date naftu, već sad tamo gde može da se pumpa.Medjutim, pobunjenici su hard bargain, hoće keš, boli ih djoka za opremu. Traže keš. Nešto oko 1,5 mlrd.

[Tutankamon]

bencnn benwedeman Many fighters in Ajdabiya wearing brand-new desert military boots they say were supplied by #Qatar.

bencnn benwedeman Source in Benghazi tells me new and more deadly weapons are being supplied to anti-Qaddafi forces in Misrata.

bencnn benwedeman As previously noted here, opposition fighters now have French-made MILAN anti-tank missiles. Source unknown.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Tutankamon

[Indy]

Postoje dokumentarci u kojima su snimljeni komandanti koji svojim oficirima pred polazak u borbu saopštavaju da nema nikakvih civila, ljudskih prava i sličnih gluposti. U urbanim operacijama, cilj je ostati živ i poraziti neprijatelja što teško ide jedno sa drugim ako se odluči za viteški pristup ličnog čišćenja svake kuće uz dobru proveru stanja pre dejstvovanja. Mnogo je popularnija i nažalost efikasnija metoda nivelisanja kompletnog naselja, što su na jednakom nivou izvele i zle bradonje u Vukovaru i dobre demokrate u Faludži. Teoriju po kojoj civilima mnogo više znači kada postradaju od demokratskog belog fosfora nego od diktatorskog VBR-a, ne bih previše komentarisao.

+1Stvarno mi nije jasno da to uopste mora da se objasnjava. Izgleda je nastao novi soj koji veruje da cilj barem ponekad opravdava sredstva. U moje vreme je vladao pacifizam, skroz. Izumro je, izgleda.

[Tutankamon]

+1Stvarno mi nije jasno da to uopste mora da se objasnjava. Izgleda je nastao novi soj koji veruje da cilj barem ponekad opravdava sredstva. U moje vreme je vladao pacifizam, skroz. Izumro je, izgleda.

I Ameri su ubijali civile što samim tim daje pukovniku pravo da pobije sve šta hoće (pacove, pse i mačke) tj. zenga, zenga. Shvatam ja vas. Kad li će neko da se seti i da su Francuzi činili zločine u Alžiru (mada davno je bilo nije se pratilo na časovima istorije) što samim tim dotičnom daje još veće pravo na isto. Kad malo bolje razmislim (filozofski) svi ćemo mi umreti, neki pre a neki kasnije, a vrli pukovnik pojedinima skraćuje tu agoniju i neizvesnost, ura za njega...mogu ja ovako u nedogled (ako treba pozvaću se i na pacifizam u moje vreme ) Edited April 14, 2011 by Tutankamon

[Budja]

Ništa ti ne znaš, bane. Gaddafijeve rakete, budući domaće, po definiciji ne nagrđuju zemlju, ne ruše gradove i ne ubijaju ljude. To radi samo invazorska municija kojoj treba pasoš.

Bas na primeru Misrate se ne vidi efektivnost vojne intervencije.Da je bilo diplomatije, sada bi u Misrati mozda bio neki Vilijem Voker, prelazna opstinska vlast, i UNprofor u Adzdabiji ali i Gadafi u Tripoliju. No, nije je bilo.

[minka]

Uopste, ta sumanuta ideja da, kad pocne rat, postoje neki civili za cije se zivote neko sekira! Daj, bre. Kome je stalo da nema zrtava taj ce uraditi sve da do rata ne dodje. Narocito volim veru u pravednu borbu jednih, koji postuju sva pravila, pa cak cine i vise od toga, i zle druge, koji samo jebu, kolju i pale.A onda se pojavi ova Slika by (Reuters/Goran Tomasevic)

LIBYA: Rebels execute black immigrants while forces kidnap others Comments (53) ADDIS ABABA — While much of the world’s attention is focusing on crude oil prices and the Libyan pipelines in the east of the country– human right groups say rebels are committing crimes against humanity. In east Libya, African hunt began as towns and cities began fall under the control of Libyan rebels, mobs and gangs. They started to detain, insult, rape and even executing black immigrants, students and refugees. In the past two weeks, more than 100 Africans from various Sub-Sahara states are believed to have been killed by Libyan rebels and their supporters. According to Somali refugees in Libya, at least five Somalis from Somaliland and Somalia were executed in Tripoli and Benghazi by anti-Gaddafi mobs. Dozens of refugees and immigrants workers from Ethiopia, Eritrea, Ghana, Nigeria, Chad, Mali and Niger have been killed, some of them were led into the desert and stabbed to death. Black Libyan men receiving medical care in hospitals in Benghazi were reportedly abducted by armed rebels. They are part of more than 200 African immigrants held in secret locations by the rebels. In many disputes involving Libyan residents and black Africans, the Libyans are turning in the Africans as mercenaries. Thousands more Africans caught up in this mercenary hysteria are terrified. Some barricaded themselves in their homes, while others hid in the desert. Insulted, threatened, beaten, chased and robbed. Their only crime was being black and therefore treated as “mercenaries” of Gaddafi. Rebels hold a young man at gunpoint between the towns of Brega and Ras Lanuf While the airing of Gaddafi’s so called “black mercenaries” by Western media has ignited the issue, some say an xenophobic attitude towards these refugees and labourers has existed for years. They say the current attacks are racially motivated because the rebels have released many actual Libyan mercenaries and soldiers under a tribal agreement. They believe many Arabs felt their Libyan leader was abandoning them for black Africans ever since he became a “pan-Africanist”. Many immigrants were regularly victims of racism. In many situations, Gaddafi and his inner circle preferred black Africans and Libyans from the south over Libyans from the east. Now the angry mobs using the revolutionary movement across Arabia and North Africa are hunting down black people. Mohamed Abdillahi, Somaliland, 25, was sleeping at his home in Zouara, when the mobs arrived. “They knocked on the door around 1 o’clock in the morning. They said get out, we’ll kill you, you are blacks, foreigners, clear.” The testimonials and are very similar among the thousands of Africans that saw the ugly side of Libya in the past weeks. “They have attacked us, they took everything from us,” said Ali Farah, Somali labourer 29 years. “They wanted to kill civilians, they beat many of us. To me, they are animals,” says Jamal Hussein, 25 years Sudanese worker. Many of the fleeing Africans are terrified to tell their stories. At the checkpoint, they do not mingle with others. When asked about their ordeal, they just freeze, “they stopped us many times and said not tell what has happened here, say there are no problems,” Elias Nour from Ethiopia said. “For the past seven days, my whole family has been holed up at home without any food, running water or electricity, we appeal for urgent intervention,” Mohamed Abdi from Somaliland told local reporters by cellphone. In the latest reports reaching Somalilandpress from Tripoli, forces loyal to Col. Muammar Gaddafi have reportedly began kidnapping African and Libyan youths from their homes and universities. They are said to be preparing them for a showdown against the rebels. The kidnapped youths include five teenagers from Somaliland. Many Africans have virtually nothing after years in Libya, many have been looted, robbed, while others saw their living quarters and apartments go in flames. Now they are praying to God to send them home. While the international leaders are busy drafting resolutions to dismantle Muammar Gaddafi, the African Union has not yet commented on the situation in Libya. Meanwhile, the International Criminal Court is said to have started a formal inquiry into possible crimes against humanity in Libya that will investigate the Libyan regime.

Ali ni to ne bude dosta. I dalje se pevaju pesme o ustajanju sprocu Sile i Nepravde.

[Tutankamon]

Gadafi bi jedva dočekao jednog Vokera. P.S. Prosto mi dođe žao vas pacifista. Toliko bre tema na ovom forumu a vi nađoste jednu od retkih koja to nije. Imate bre teme o cvetićima i leptirićima, ima i o heklanju, sve pacifistički sportovi, pa opletite živ vam ja...P.S.P.S. Ako neko pljuje ovde po rebelima onda smo to mi koji ih podržavamo, no vi to ne želite da vidite...

[angern]

As previously noted here, opposition fighters now have French-made MILAN anti-tank missiles. Source unknown. #Libya

Samo da ne budu kvalitetni kao ovaj:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONuhSumK3xo

[Tutankamon]

bencnn benwedeman Another catastrophic day at the Ajdabiya front: opposition offensive collapses into chaos for no apparent reason.

bencnn benwedeman Ajdabiya still in opposition hands, shows no sign of slipping. But opposition fighters need 3 months basic training.

[zorglub]

Kad li će neko da se seti i da su Francuzi činili zločine u Alžiru (mada davno je bilo nije se pratilo na časovima istorije) što samim tim dotičnom daje još veće pravo na isto.

Malo preko, malo doma...

[minka]

Samo da ne budu kvalitetni kao ovaj:

jbt, suze mi posle, kakvi amateri!!!

[Indy]

I Ameri su ubijali civile što samim tim daje pukovniku pravo da pobije sve šta hoće (pacove, pse i mačke) tj. zenga, zenga. Shvatam ja vas. Kad li će neko da se seti i da su Francuzi činili zločine u Alžiru (mada davno je bilo nije se pratilo na časovima istorije) što samim tim dotičnom daje još veće pravo na isto. Kad malo bolje razmislim (filozofski) svi ćemo mi umreti, neki pre a neki kasnije, a vrli pukovnik pojedinima skraćuje tu agoniju i neizvesnost, ura za njega...mogu ja ovako u nedogled (ako treba pozvaću se i na pacifizam u moje vreme )

Ovakvo lupetanje nije odavno vidjeno na ovom potforumu. Moderacijo, spavas li? Cisti ovo na PZD (mada je i tamo nivo argumentacije visociji).

[Tutankamon]

A lupetanje je zato što ti kažeš da je lupetanje. Nema šta, zalepiš etiketu...

[Bane5]

Da je bilo diplomatije, sada bi u Misrati mozda bio neki Vilijem Voker, prelazna opstinska vlast, i UNprofor u Adzdabiji ali i Gadafi u Tripoliju. No, nije je bilo.

@Budja,nikad gadafi ne bi pristao na ovo. potpuno je nemoguce da on pristane na bilo sta sto njemu i naslednicima suzava pravo na sve u libiji.

[Indy]

A lupetanje je zato što ti kažeš da je lupetanje. Nema šta, zalepiš etiketu...

Ne. Lupetanje je zato sto sam ga triput procitao, a i dalje nemam pojma sta si hteo da kazes.