Peti oktobar na bliskom istoku i arapskom svetu

[aram]

Iz Brisela pozivaju Gadafija da hitno podnese ostavku. U suprotnom prete vojnom akcijom, kazu uz podrsku UN i Arapske Lige.

[Roger Sanchez]

Iz Brisela pozivaju Gadafija da hitno podnese ostavku. U suprotnom prete vojnom akcijom, kazu uz podrsku UN i Arapske Lige.

Tko? Ja i dalje čujem da se prijete samo Đi Bi i Francuska :suez:

[aram]

Tko? Ja i dalje čujem da se prijete samo Đi Bi i Francuska :suez:

tja, naslov je ovakav kako rekoh, ali ostatak vesti 'nako. enivej, zajednicki stavovi sa samita UE (na nemackom je, pa u spojler...)

Brüssel (dapd). Die EU will den libyschen Machthaber Muammar al Gaddafi zur Not mit einem Militäreinsatz aus dem Amt jagen. Alle Optionen, auch militärische, blieben auf dem Tisch, sagte der belgische Ministerpräsident Yves Leterme am Freitag zum Abschluss eines EU-Sondergipfels zu Libyen in Brüssel. Bedingung für einen Einsatz seien die Unterstützung der Arabischen Liga sowie eine Einigung des UN-Sicherheitsrates. Zudem müsste die klare Notwendigkeit für ein Eingreifen gegeben sein, sagte EU-Ratspräsident Herman Van Rompuy. In ihrer Abschlusserklärung fordern die 27 EU-Staaten Gaddafi auf, die Macht "unverzüglich" abzugeben. Zugleich spricht die Gemeinschaft ihre Unterstützung für den kürzlich formierten Übergangsrat aus dem östlichen Bengasi aus: "Die EU ist bereit, Gespräche mit den neuen libyschen Behörden aufzunehmen", heißt es in der Erklärung. "Jemand, der Krieg gegen sein eigenes Volk führt, ist für die EU kein Gesprächspartner mehr", machte Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel (CDU) klar. Die EU werde alles tun, um Gaddafi mit wirtschaftlichen, finanziellen und sonstigen Sanktionen zu isolieren. Zugleich warnte sie vor voreiligen Schritten, ohne die umstrittene Einrichtung einer Flugverbotszone über Libyen direkt anzusprechen. "Wir müssen alles tun, um das Leiden des libyschen Volkes einzuschränken. Aber wir müssen die Schritte genau überlegen, damit wir sie auch zu einem vernünftigen Ende führen." Zwtl: Paris und London zu "gezielten Militärmaßnahmen" bereit Großbritannien und Frankreich hatten in Brüssel darauf gedrungen, auch militärischen Druck auf Tripolis auszuüben. "Wir müssen alle Eventualitäten vorbereiten", sagte der britische Premierminister David Cameron. "Wir sind zu gezielten, rein defensiven Aktionen bereit", sagte der französische Staatschef Nicolas Sarkozy. Diese sollten erwogen werden, "wenn Gaddafi chemische Waffen oder Kampfjets gegen sein Volk einsetzt". Bedingung sei für ihn aber auch, dass die Vereinten Nationen dies wünschten und die Arabische Liga (AL) eine Militärintervention akzeptiere. Die AL-Mitglieder Syrien und Algerien sind laut Brüsseler Diplomatenkreisen allerdings gegen die Einrichtung einer Flugverbotszone. Die NATO hatte einen Einsatz bereits am Donnerstag an die Bedingung geknüpft, dass die Arabische Liga dies fordere. Die Organisation berät am (morgigen) Samstag in Kairo über die Krise in Libyen - und mögliche Anfragen an die internationale Gemeinschaft. Erfolg hatte Sarkozy offenbar mit seiner Forderung, dass die Gemeinschaft seinem Schritt folgt und den im östlichen Bengasi gebildeten Übergangsrat als legitime Regierungsautorität anerkennt. Der Élysée-Chef hatte mit seinem Vorpreschen die EU-Partner am Donnerstag vor den Kopf gestoßen. Bundesaußenminister Guido Westerwelle hatte daraufhin bezweifelt, ob das Gremium wirklich für die gesamte Opposition sprechen könne. Die EU hatte am Donnerstag bereits ihre Sanktionen gegen das Regime in Tripolis verschärft: Die Geldflüsse für die Zentralbank und vier weitere Finanzinstitute wurden abgetrennt. Geht es nach dem Willen Westerwelles, dann sollen auch die libyschen Öl- und Gasfirmen kein Geld mehr für Lieferungen erhalten, bis Gaddafi die Macht abgegeben hat.

[Bane5]

Cini se da bi se NFZ uspostavila ako bi se toj ideji priklonila Arapska liga. EU, po svemu sudeci, ocekuje da se to, eventualno, desi pa da se onda napravi neka medjunarodna koalicija koja bi mozda iskljucila USA od direktnog ucesca (oni bi dali podrsku), ali bi ucinila da FR i GB budu glavne.edit: Sto je sve svakako prilicno daleko i nerealno.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Bane5

[Luka]

Bane, sta se desava na terenu? tek sad sam stigla do kompa..

But Germany has also made it clear that it will only back a no-fly zone if Arab states actually participate in enforcing it, a condition that appears very difficult to meet.

Sutra se sastaje Arapska liga.

A very senior diplomat said on condition of anonymity that it was important that the threat of military action remained on the table “as a threat” but that for the time being, no military action was seriously being considered. An EU source said that France and the UK were the only countries pushing for a no-fly zone but that they were isolated.

link

[luba]

so, ceka se sutra arapska liga.

The Arab League, whose green light is seen as key to plans for a no-fly zone in Libya to prevent Moamer Kadhafi's attacks on his people, will likely approve the move, EU chair Hungary said Friday. The Arab League is meeting on Saturday in Cairo "and the expectation is that they will support a no-fly zone under some conditions," Hungarian Foreign Minister Janos Martonyi told journalists at the start of an EU foreign ministers' meeting. "The best thing I think would be that a concerted action would be planned and implemented with the countries of the Arab League," he added. EU countries have been debating the need for a no-fly zone in Libya to protect the population from being attacked by Kadhafi's forces, during meetings in Brussels over the past two days. Britain and France have a draft resolution in hand to put to the United Nations Security Council for an air exclusion zone over the oil-rich country. However, other states have been more cautious about such an operation. Still, EU members were able to come to some agreement on the issue, Martonyi said. "What we were able to agree yesterday was that introducing a no-fly zone would require three pre-conditions, namely that the intervention must be necessary and this depends on how circumstances develop... whether the crimes against humanity are getting stronger and stronger." Also necessary would be "a UN Security Council resolution that would provide a basis for such actions and the third precondition would be that all possible steps would need to be in agreement with the Arab League and with their support," he said. On Friday in Brussels, EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton also said: "The Arab world has to lead." Ashton was to fly to Cairo this weekend to meet with Arab League chief Amr Mussa.

a ban ki mun predstavio svog izaslanika koji putuje u tripoli

A new UN envoy on the Libya conflict will go to Tripoli next week to raise international concerns about Moamer Kadhafi's crackdown on protests, UN chief Ban Ki-moon said Friday. Former Jordanian foreign minister Abdul Ilah Khatib will put across to the regime "in no uncertain terms the concerns of the United Nations and the international community," Ban told reporters as he presented the envoy.

[Luka]

a vidite ovo, u kontekstu pritisaka na obamu

some even call for the defence secretary Robert M Gates - who has been notably dismissive of the idea of imposing a “no-fly zone” - to resign (see William Kristol, “The Gates of Resignation”, Weekly Standard, 14 March 2011).

[Bane5]

Bane, sta se desava na terenu?

U Tripoliju nije bilo demonstracija zbog veceg prisustva vojske ispred dzamija narocito u prigradskim delovima. Nepotvrdjena je informacija da je bacen suzavac preventivno bar na jednu dzamiju. Zawiya je navodno pod Gadafijevim snagama, ali se cini da jos uvek postoje dzepovi otpora u samom gradu. Otkazan je jos jedan odlazak stranih novinara u Zawiyu. Najzesce borbe se vode oko Ras Lanufa. Iako se cinilo da ce revolucionari biti oterani dalje ka Bregi, ispada da se ceo dan borbe vode u samom Ras Lanufu. Cas jedni, cas drugi nadiru. Upotreba avijacije i artiljerije od strane Gadafijevih je na maksimumu.

[luba]

a vidite ovo, u kontekstu pritisaka na obamu

jes da nije popularno, ali meni je vise nego kul vasingtonova rezervisanost u vezi sa libijom i prebacivanje (makar javno) lopte u dvorista ostalih. to sto se bivsi kolonijalisti kurce vojnim intervencijama verovatno sluzi za unutrasnju upotrebu vise nego sto je stvarno.eu danas, ukratko:

European Union leaders on Friday agreed to "examine all necessary options" to protect civilians in Libya as they ramped up pressure on Moamer Kadhafi at a crisis summit. Opening a door to possible military intervention, the 27-nation bloc agreed a statement expressing "its deep concern about attacks against civilians, including from the air. "In order to protect the civilian population, member states will examine all necessary options, provided that there is a demonstrable need, a clear legal basis and support from the region," the statement said. The legal basis sought by EU states would be a United Nations Security Council resolution authorising action. European nations have also repeatedly insisted they would take action in Libya only with approval from the Arab League, which will discuss events in Libya in Cairo on Sunday. Friday's pivotal summit capped 48 hours of talks in response to the crisis in Libya, also involving NATO defence ministers and European Union foreign ministers. The EU also deemed the opposition to Kadhafi, based in the eastern city of Benghazi, a "legitimate interlocutor." France has officially recognised the opposition as the rightful representative of Libya but other EU states have stopped short even as they insist that Kadhafi immediately step down. Kadhafi must give up power "without delay", said EU president Herman Van Rompuy at the close of the summit on the conflict in the north African nation. Kadhafi was "a leader shooting at his own people," Van Rompuy said. "The Libyan leadership must give up power without delay," he added. "All say it loud and clear," Van Rompuy said of the EU leaders. In other developments at the talks, British Prime Minister David Cameron called on the European Union and international community to consider imposing additional sanctions on Libya's oil industry. Cameron's call came as multi-billion-dollar EU sanctions on Libya came into force on five state vehicles holding billions in assets and investments said to be under Kadhafi's family control. The EU Official Journal named the the Libyan Investment Authority -- "also known as the Libyan Arab Foreign Investment Company" -- among the five, as the overseas vehicle for investing Tripoli's oil revenues and "under control of Moamer Kadhafi and his family, and a potential source of funding for his regime." The others were the Central Bank of Libya, the Libya Africa Investment Portfolio, the Libyan Foreign Bank and the Libyan Housing and Infrastructure Board. Also named was an Austrian citizen, Mustafa Zarti, for "closeness of association with regime," as well as a board member of the National Oil Corporation, the head of Tamoil and vice chairman of First Energy Bank in Bahrain. The new targets come on top of 26 individuals deemed responsible for a violent crackdown on Libya's civilian population since February 15 who are also subject to an asset freeze and travel bans. These include the veteran ruler's seven sons and his daughter, along with his wife Safia al-Barassi. Hungarian Foreign Minister Janos Martonyi, who signed the entry in the Official Journal, the record of EU law, told national radio Friday that "further sanctions are not being ruled out, in particular a freeze of the assets of oil and gas producing and exporting companies."

[luba]

danny kemp iz ras lanufa:

In the midst of a heavy-weapons duel, a warplane dropped bombs on a rebel checkpoint 10 kilometres (six miles) east of the town and on a nearby oil refinery, but no casualties were reported. Reporters saw flames and a massive plume of thick black smoke rising from the refinery, the second facility to be hit in the week's fighting. Later, a second strike hit rebel positions about 15 kilometres east of town. There was no reliable estimate for the number of dead in Friday's fighting, but reporters saw at least five bodies, and medics said 10 people were killed on Thursday. Earlier, rebels fired a salvo of at least 12 Katyushas from a rocket launcher mounted on the back of a truck, and what rebels said were loyalist army shells and Grad rockets were heard exploding further west. As the fighting continued, volunteer medics calling for international help and the United Nations warning of a potential food shortage. A few kilometres east of Ras Lanuf, within earshot of shellfire and air raids, Doctor Awad el-Ghweiry feared his makeshift clinic would not be able to cope. "Where are all the international organisations?" he demanded, as he and his colleagues treated three rebels and three loyalists.

[Luka]

Hvala Bane.Luba

jes da nije popularno, ali meni je vise nego kul vasingtonova rezervisanost u vezi sa libijom i prebacivanje (makar javno) lopte u dvorista ostalih. to sto se bivsi kolonijalisti kurce vojnim intervencijama verovatno sluzi za unutrasnju upotrebu vise nego sto je stvarno.

Sto nije popularno, ja se slazem sa tim. Sve si lepo rekla, nemam sta da dodam. (osim da podsetim na one ankete koje Chomsky stalno poteze o nepopularnosti SAD u arapskom svetu, sto je dodatni razlog da se ponasaju vrlo oprezno)

[Luka]

sad mi je ovo stiglo, nisam ni sama odgledala, kredibilni su sagovornici - Richard Haas i Ann-Marie Slaughter ..To Intervene Or Not To Intervene…edit: vidis, Ann-Marie Slaughter misli da bas zbog tog antiamerikanizma treba intervenisati:

She argues that Libya is in the United States’ national interest because anti-Americanism is fueled by the perception that the U.S. supports Middle Eastern dictatorships. Thus, taking decisive action to topple a dictatorship would serve as a blow to radical anti-Americanists.

Ja uopste nisam ubedjena u to. Jes, ovo joj je bas unconventional argument.. Edited March 11, 2011 by Luka

[Gandalf]

vidis, Ann-Marie Slaughter misli da bas zbog tog antiamerikanizma treba intervenisati:Ja uopste nisam ubedjena u to. Jes, ovo joj je bas unconventional argument...

ima logike. ako bi americka umesanost bila na strani Arapa, umesto (od WWII skoro uvek) protiv Arapa... danas su u Bengaziju mahali francuskim zastavama.edit: podrska umerenim & prozapadnim liderima = protiv Arapa Edited March 11, 2011 by Gandalf

[Luka]

ima logike. ako bi americka umesanost bila na strani Arapa, umesto (od WWII skoro uvek) protiv Arapa... danas su u Bengaziju mahali francuskim zastavama.edit: podrska umerenim & prozapadnim liderima = protiv Arapa

Razumem logiku i ona jeste sugestivna. Ali ko tacno iz Libije trazi intervenciju i kog oblika? Jel to preovladjujuci zahtev? tu su mi stvari takodje nejasne, svakodnevno vidjam argumente i za i protiv i iz arapskog sveta.

[luba]

Razumem logiku i ona jeste sugestivna. Ali ko tacno iz Libije trazi intervenciju i kog oblika? Jel to preovladjujuci zahtev? tu su mi stvari takodje nejasne, svakodnevno vidjam argumente i za i protiv i iz arapskog sveta.

ako se prihvati da je jalil, koji je od prosle nedelje svuda predstavljen kao "head of the rebel national council", onda pozivi za intervenciju stizu sa te strane:za bbc je rekao

"The Libyans are being cleansed by Kadhafi’s air force," Mustafa Abdel Jalil told the BBC. "We asked for a no-fly zone to be imposed from day one." "We also want a sea embargo and we urgently need some arms and we also need humanitarian assistance and medicines to be sent to the cities besieged by Kadhafi troops."

obama me pomalo demantuje, ali znamo vec da dosta toga sto kaze, ne sprovede.

"Not only the United States but the international community has an obligation to do what we can to prevent a repeat of something like what happened in the Balkans in the '90s, what occurred in Rwanda," Obama said. The president said at a White House news conference that stopping civilian killings was one reason the West had started continuous aerial surveillance over Libya. "There are going to be some judgment calls," Obama said, also adding that the United States had consulted Arab and African nations to gauge their support for a possible no-fly zone over Libya.

a gdju slaughter ne bih bas uzimala za ozbiljno. reklo bi se da tim argumentom i dalje vadi fleke sto je irak opisivala kao "legitimate" akciju.