Peti oktobar na bliskom istoku i arapskom svetu

[Marvin (Paranoid Android)]

Nadam se da neće ljudima ako ubacim malo satire...Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway?8 tačnih od 10. Beat that.

[Gandalf]

Nadam se da neće ljudima ako ubacim malo satire...Charlie Sheen v Muammar Gaddafi: whose line is it anyway?8 tačnih od 10. Beat that.

7/10 <_< Edited March 1, 2011 by Gandalf

[jms_uk]

7/10 <_<

same here.

[morgana]

7/10a mislila sam da znam sve o carli sinu :(

[Tinman]

Najgori za sad 6/10

[Roger Sanchez]

7/10 <_<

Damn robot. Isto.Nadam se da niste propustili detalj iz jučerašnje presice ambasadorke Rice da je Gaddafi poništio akreditive *svog* ambasadora iz UNa. Zanimljiva situacija pred UNom i diplomacijom.

[Radoye]

Najgori za sad 6/10

Ditto. Moram malo vise poceti da pratim trac-medije

[расејан]

Nadam se da niste propustili detalj iz jučerašnje presice ambasadorke Rice da je Gaddafi poništio akreditive *svog* ambasadora iz UNa. Zanimljiva situacija pred UNom i diplomacijom.

Може да му пљуне под прозор - зар га се тај амбасадор већ није одрекао? То је као да је отерао жену зато што је отишла да живи негде другде.

[luba]

necu da stavljam rezultat, osramoticu marvina.sto posto ne znas da carli estevez, kao i svaki celindzer, ne veruje u 11.septembar.ostatak magreba i bliskog istoka:

OMAN: Omani forces backed by tanks disperse protesters who have been massed at a key roundabout in the industrial city of Sohar, blocking access to the port and the coastal road to Muscat. YEMEN: Huge crowds poured onto the streets of the Yemeni capital Sanaa in what the opposition hailed as the biggest protest yet against the three-decade rule of President Ali Abdullah Saleh. - Saleh sacked the governors of five provinces where anti-regime protests have raged for more than a month. BAHRAIN: Thousands of Bahrainis took to the street in an anti-regime protest heading to Pearl Square, the focal point of demonstrations for over two weeks. - Crown Prince Salman said on Monday efforts were under way to launch talks with the opposition, which is demanding major political reforms. EGYPT: The public prosecutor slapped a ban on ousted president Hosni Mubarak and his family travelling abroad, and also imposed a freeze on their assets. TUNISIA: Two more ministers left Tunisia's interim government on Tuesday following the resignations of the prime minister and two other ministers after weeks of protests about the caretaker authority. - Amnesty International accused Tunisian security forces of "murder" in their crackdown on protesters in the uprising that toppled Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in January, and demanded an enquiry. KUWAIT: Kuwaiti opposition groups on Tuesday intensified their demands for the sacking of the prime minister, blamed for stalling development in the oil-rich Gulf state. ALGERIA: Algeria is extremely concerned about the situation in neighbouring Libya including the violence and disappearance of its institutions during the ongoing uprising, the foreign minister said. IRAQ: Iraq's prime minister -- who has warned his cabinet to shape up within 100 days or face "changes" -- apologised to a reporter after the journalist alleged assault at the hands of security forces during massive demonstrations in Baghdad last week. JORDAN: Calls for a constitutional monarchy in Jordan were growing ahead of a parliamentary vote of confidence on the new government, as the Islamist opposition called a pro-reform protest for Friday. SAUDI ARABIA: Saudi shares dived 6.8 percent to a 20-month low on Tuesday amid panic sell-off by investors concerned over unrest that has hit several Arab countries, traders and analysts said. - More than 100 Saudi academics, activists and businessmen have called for major reforms including the establishment of a "constitutional monarchy" in the Gulf kingdom, in an Internet statement. IRAN: Iranian security forces on Tuesday fired tear gas in Tehran clashes with anti-government protesters demanding the release of two opposition leaders, opposition websites reported.

[hazard]

Nadam se da neće ljudima ako ubacim malo satire...8 tačnih od 10. Beat that.

Ja takodje 8/10, 7. i 8. pitanje promasio.

[angern]

The Economist: Qaddafi's Yugoslav friends

Izgleda da Gadafija svi vole (bar po fotografijama), i Istok i Zapad i Toni Bler i Tito.. Edited March 1, 2011 by angern

[aram]

7 out of a possible 10

[Bane5]

Izgleda da Gadafija svi vole (bar po fotografijama), i Istok i Zapad i Toni Bler i Tito..

Svi vole njegove pare.

[Roger Sanchez]

Qasr Banashir, SE od Tripolija.U blizini, kamion navodno vozi human'tarnu u Benghazi, druggiesima i thuggiesima.

[bigvlada]

A poznato je da je noću nemoguće bombardovati.

Ako Gadafi ima iole kvalitetne pilote ili angažuje kvalitetne plaćenike (pun je bivši SSSR i Istočni blok demobilisanih vojnih pilota koji bi rado zaradili neki dolar), ako su mu avioni ispravni i ako ima dovoljno zaliha, taj bi se marš mogao pretvoriti u pravi pokolj. Radarski i infracrveno navođenim projektilima i bombama je svejedno da li je dan ili noć, a svako veće vozilo i stvara dovoljno toplote i ima dovoljno veliki odraz da bi moglo biti naciljano u sred mrklog mraka.

Poznato je da se libijska avijacija ne snalazi u takvim zadacima, nema opremu za to (flir) niti je to uvežbavala. Ne mogu da ih spreče da se kreću noću. Osim toga, valjda i na istoku ima nešto od PA džebane i opreme.

Ne bi im pomogli ni bolja oprema ni bolja obuka.

Pa rekoh da se vojska stvara godinama kao i da im državni vrh čine diletanti. Sa druge strane, čak i Kanada je imala plan,razvijen još tokom tridesetih, kako da napadne i da se odbrani od SAD-a. Taktika je bila napadni odmah, poruši sve u blizini granice, povuci se u divljinu i vodi gerilski rat. I amerikanci su imali svoje planove u istom vremenskom intervalu za okupaciju Kanade. Izbio je diplomatski skandal kada su se te arhive otvorile. Uostalom, normalno je da se u generalštabu jedne zemlje razvijaju ofanzivne i defanzivne varijante rata sa svim susedima. Da je gruzijska vojska bila bolje obučena, obrazovanija, opremljenija, boljeg morala, imala je realnu šansu da digne u vazduh ulaz u roki tunel i munjevito zauzme južnu osetiju i abhaziju, uz minimum žrtava i izbegavanje bilo kakvog kontakta sa ruskim mirovnjacima.A oni su odabrali seljačku varijantu sa artiljerijskim bombardovanjem civila u gradovima i selima.

Čitao sam negde da su oni oslobađali veliki broj regruta služenja vojske, jer, navodno, nisu mogli da ukapiraju osnovne stvari potrebne za služenje vojske (koja je leva, a koja desna ruka, itd.), premda je tu sigurno bila masa foliranata, kao i kod nas

Da, ima u članku koji sam postovao pre par strana, od 900 i nešto hiljada regruta, samo oko 500000 je moglo da služi vojsku.

Izraelsko - arapski sukobi su puni bizarnih primera katastrofalne neobučenosti arapskih vojski, počev od toga da sirijski MiG-ovi 23 uopšte ne polete sa aerodroma, jer niko ne zna da njima pilotira

Još jedno izuzeno tačno zapažanje, zato su npr. 1967 Egipćani kukali da je SAD pomagala Izraelu jer nisu mogli da veruju da ovi mogu da obave 4 borbena leta dnevno dok je kod njih norma bila 1-2 maksimum.

Valjda je Arapima najbitnije da nakupuju moderno oružje, a da li ga upotrebljavaju kako treba i nije im tako bitno.

Right on spot again.Imam knjigu u pdf-u Arab air forces od Charles Stafrace-a koja obuhvata period do 1994 i koja ovu tezu lepo ilustruje. Ovo me podseti na štos iz nekog filma gde dva prašumska plemena, od kojih svako ima rudnik dijamanata ratuju tako što kupe najnovije avione pa ih guraju da se sudare, svako sa svog brda.

posle formiranja privremene civilne vlasti, danas je osnovan i vojni savet u bengaziju u kome su oficiri koji su presli na stranu anti-gadafijevca, ali u njemu (za sada) nema bivseg dacica, abdela fataha yunisa, koji je sam rekao da nece da "prlja revoluciju" i zatrazio da bude samo savetnik

najnovije, gadafijevi nisu uspeli da se probiju dalje od predgradja zavije, misrate i gerijana, ali su jos tu u okolini.

Ovo je dokaz apsolutnog diletantizma regularne libijske vojske, na obe strane. Ne mogu da smislim šta se motalo po glavi zapovednika jedinica koje su rešile da se odmetnu. Znaju da nemaju avijaciju a prvo što su uradili je da napuste položaje sa kubovima, nevama ili čime već (behu sličice po netu). Čak i da ništa od toga nije operativno, imaš ljudstvo sa strelama, pragama i sličnim low tech PA naoružanjem. Dozvolili su da im ludak bombarduje aerodrom preko koga su očekivali pomoć. Ni to im nije bilo dovoljno da počnu da prebacuju municiju, naoružanje i drugu opremu iz vojnih skladišta u skladišta po gradu ili u luci. Pa da su samo noću to radili, izvukli bi nešto od opreme. Umesto toga, oni su se zabarakadirali u Bengaziju i čekaju da neko skine Gadafija umesto njih. FACTBOX-Libya's military: what does Gaddafi have left?01 Mar 2011 11:34Source: reuters // Reuters By Peter Apps and William MacleanLONDON, March 1 (Reuters) - On paper, Libya's military has some 100,000 troops, more than 2,000 tanks, 374 aircraft and a navy and includes two patrol submarines. What Colonel Muammar Gaddafi actually has left to call on is a different matter.Here are some details of Libya's armed forces, officially totalling around 76,000 active personnel, plus a reserve or people's militia of some 40,000.GROUND FORCES - STRENGTH ON PAPER:Numbers: 50,000 including 25,000 conscripts. Main Battle Tanks - 2,205, including 180 T-90S and 200 T-62.The rest are in store.Reconnaissance vehicles - 120.Armoured Infantry Fighting vehicles - 1,000.Armoured personnel carriers - 945.Artillery pieces 2,421 (including 444 self-propelled, 647 towed).Mortars - 500.Air Defence surface-to-air missiles - at least 424. GROUND FORCES - REALITY:Even before the uprising, Libya's military strength was seen as having been seriously undermined by sanctions and neglect although Western powers had just began to sell it weapons again. Much of the equipment is seen as poorly maintained or unusable, leaving it hard to estimate genuine numbers.Analysts say Gaddafi tried to emasculate the regular army to avoid the emergence of commanders who might rival his immediate family, relying instead particularly on three loyal "regime protection" units often of his own tribe.That leaves him with what most estimate to be some 10-12,000 loyal Libyan troops. The most reliable formation is seen to be the 32nd Brigade commanded by Gaddafi's son Khamis.Repeated reports from witnesses, rights groups and others talk of African mercenaries flown in by Gaddafi to help strengthen his government. Exact numbers are impossible to obtain. In Libya's east around the city of Benghazi, regular military forces appear to have either defected to the opposition or melted away. Citizens groups also appear to have taken arms.But analysts say the opposition lacks much in the way of command and control or even any form of centralised leadership. So far, opposition units have focused primarily on defending territory and have shown little appetite to advance.That leaves loyalist forces trying to stem protest and perhaps regain lost territory in Libya's west around Tripoli. The key coastal city of Sirte between Tripoli and Benghazi is still under government control and the east effectively lost. But experts warn the situation remains fluid."We underestimate the degree of loyalty in the security forces," warns Shashank Joshi, Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute. "The defections appear to be patchwork and possibly along tribal lines. The units that matter, such as Khamis's 32nd Brigade, are holding together.NAVY - STRENGTH ON PAPERNumbers: 8,000 including coast guard.Submarines - 2 patrol submarines.Surface combatants - 3Patrol and coastal combatants - 14NAVY - REALITYLibya's two surviving Foxtrot class diesel submarines were delivered by the Soviet Union in the late 1980s, but outside experts have long questioned their reliability. According to IHS Jane's, in 2003 one was reported to be in dry dock and one was sea going -- although unlikely to be fully operational. It suggested both might already have been abandoned.AIR FORCE - STRENGTH ON PAPERNumbers: 18,000.Combat capable aircraft - 374.227 fighter aircraft -- 13-Mirage F1-ED, 94 MiG-25, 75 MiG-23 and 45 MiG-21.Helicopters - 85 Support helicopters35 Attack helicoptersAIR FORCE - REALITYAnalysts estimate many of Libya's fast jets are in fact no longer airworthy. Gaddafi has so far also lost at least three aircraft in the course of this uprising with two jets defecting to Malta and the crew of a third ejecting over the desert rather than bomb opposition targets as ordered.Occasional reports have also spoken of the use of helicopter gunships, fuelling calls for foreign powers to impose a no-fly zone.OTHER FORCES:There are also Air Defence Command forces which possess at least 216 surface-to-air missiles and 144 towed and 72 self propelled missiles.Again, maintenance may be an issue. Most analysts believe Libya's armed forces would not be able to seriously threaten outside air forces attempting to enforce a no-fly zone, saying Gaddafi's defence capabilities probably lag behind those of Iraq's Saddam Hussein before the US-led 2003 invasion.The BBC reported a British RAF Hercules transport aircraft evacuating foreign nationals came under small arms fire this week but was not seriously damaged. Some suggested the attack might have come from opposition forces who mistook the plane for one of Gaddafi's aircraft on a bombing raid.CHEMICAL WEAPONS:According to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), Libya destroyed its entire stockpile of chemical weapons munitions in early 2004 as part of a rapprochement with the West that also saw it abandon a nuclear program.The OPCW told Reuters Libya did retain some 9.5 tonnes of deadly mustard gas at a secret desert location but no longer had the capability to deliver it.Sources: Reuters/IISS Military Balance 2010.http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/factbox-libyas-military-what-does-gaddafi-have-left/btw. spisak aerodroma, 2009http://www.aircraft-charter-world.com/airports/africa/libya.htmi sličica trenutnog stanja, ako je verovati vikipedijihttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/36/Libyan_Uprising.svg