Peti oktobar na bliskom istoku i arapskom svetu

[luba]

zanimljivo mi je sto je el baradej izuzetno popularan ne samo medj ovim "secular, liberal, market-oriented" svetom, vec i medju tzv obicnim narodom koji mu ne zamera sto je bio u inozemstvu jer je otisao tamo da radi, a ne ko neki drugi opozicioni lideri u severnoj africi, kod soros mentora i svojih gazda.s druge strane, egipat se previse otvorio da bi mubarak mogao jednako da vlada kao pre 15, pa i 10 godina. sam je kriv za sve sto ce da ga snadje. a tek ako se digne luksor i nizvodno uz nil, ojha. ne znam samo da li je istina ovo sto sad vidim da ce muslim brotherhood da se pridruzi protestima u petak, niti da li je to pametno.tviter se opet pokazuje revolucionarno, a wiki dzejkob deli tor sakom i kapom.

[Gandalf]

Some people argued with me when I dismissed the Islamists of the Muslim Brotherhood. I know that they suffer great repression: in one year in 2007, some 8000 members of them were arrested and not one word was uttered in protest in the West. But those Islamists of the MB have been cowardly in dealing with Mubarak from the get go. They have absolutely no role whatsoever in what is happening. They have made themselves irrelevant and for that I am glad. None of the slogans in Egypt are Islamist or Islamic in nature. The activists are mostly young and educated and generally progressive from lower and middle class backgrounds. Some are some of the people that I have communicated with about events in Egypt in the last few years. And Twitter and Facebook have been greatly utilized by them. One of the great activists in Egypt has a graduate degree in internet media and he is putting his skills to a great use. Salutation comrades.Posted by As'ad at 8:45 AMLet me say this: Husni Mubarak may survive the events: the US and Israel will make sure of that. But the Egyptian people can certainly celebrate one already achieved victory: the candidacy of Jamal Mubarak is out of the window. That I can ascertain.Posted by As'ad at 8:41 AM

[luba]

e pa to, bas zbog toga se i pitam koji moj imaju oni da se pridruzuju protestima.ovi sto ih pratim po tviteru i na par sajtova pisu isto kao i ovaj tvoj as'ad.mada su ovi moji drugari malo optimisticniji od njega :)

[Gandalf]

e pa to, bas zbog toga se i pitam koji moj imaju oni da se pridruzuju protestima.ovi sto ih pratim po tviteru i na par sajtova pisu isto kao i ovaj tvoj as'ad.mada su ovi moji drugari malo optimisticniji od njega :)

pa, rekao bih da i nemaju mnogo izbora. vec ih se zestoko kritikuje sto nisu uzeli ucesce od samog starta, obzirom da su najveca i najbolje organizovana opoziciona grupa. vec se neckaju.pri tome, podnevnoj molitvi u petak ce svakako prisustvovati veliki broj njihovih clanova.

[Roger Sanchez]

To što ovi piskaraju po koment sekšnima opet ništa ne mijenja na činjenici da kad bi došlo do izbora, MB bi rasturilo ove ad hok umjerenjake i sl., čisto zato jer već imaju organizaciju i mnogobrojog Fazlija koji baš i ne kuži stvari najbolje ali zna da je MB prava stvar, a ovo neki vilozovi koji tek sad kao nešto profinjeno sikću na Mubaraka.

[Gandalf]

To što ovi piskaraju po koment sekšnima opet ništa ne mijenja na činjenici da kad bi došlo do izbora, MB bi rasturilo ove ad hok umjerenjake i sl., čisto zato jer već imaju organizaciju i mnogobrojog Fazlija koji baš i ne kuži stvari najbolje ali zna da je MB prava stvar, a ovo neki vilozovi koji tek sad kao nešto profinjeno sikću na Mubaraka.

prateci neke mitinge koje je organizovao El Baradei, stekao sam utisak da bi i on sasvim lepo prosao na izborima. MB nema pojedinca koji bi mu parirao, oni su jaki organizaciono.a ako padne Hosnija*, snjur nosi onaj koji se prikaze kao kljucni lider.edit: s tim sto El Baradei nije "umerenjak". tj. nije umereni, prozapadni, obozavamIzrael... tip lidera. probali Ameri da ga kupe dok je bio sef IAEA.*cemu se iskreno nadam, ali sumnjam da ce se desiti. :( Edited January 27, 2011 by Gandalf

[luba]

ma dobro, jasno je to, nego ipak lepse zvuci kad revoluciju pokrene narod, jelte. a opozicija ce ionako da pokupi slag, to smo naucili iz svih iskustava.pre desetak godina, ako bi bilo ko i hteo da prica sa strancem o politici, eventualno bi se pominjalo bratstvo, ali letos bogami, ni o njima nisu svi imali bas idealno misljenje. no dobro, moj uzorak nije bas reprezentativan, ali je zanimljivo kako se od evenutalnog saputanja o hosnijevim muljanjima onomad, stigne do razumnih kritika gresaka njegovih protivnika, a sve to u ipak dosta zatvorenom drustvenom sistemu.

[Indy]

2OP...mislim, ovaj, geografija?!Jemen nije bas u Afriku (ono, jes' blizu). A i Tunis jedva da je tamo (by the skin of its teeth). Egipat je na Balkanu, kao sto znamo.

[WTF]

Da, meni ovo vise lici na neku koordinisanu revoluciju (ili samo pokusaj) u arapskim zemljama, koje su geografski na 2 kontinenta, ali cine jednu celinu, tj. kad bi ukinuli granice to bi bila jedna ogromna drzava od Atlantskog Okeana do Indijskog Okeana, od Sahare do Turske i Irana.

[luba]

ja sam kriva za geografiju, molila sam, usred ove igranke na moderaciji, da se splituje topik svet i pokusala da budem vickasta sa predlogom za naziv. kad se petljam tamo gde ne treba.jeste videli ovaj guardian

My captors were burly and wore leather jackets – up close I could see they were amin dowla, plainclothes officers from Egypt's notorious state security service. All attempts I made to tell them in Arabic and English that I was an international journalist were met with more punches and slaps; around me I could make out other isolated protesters receiving the same brutal treatment and choking from the teargas.

[Gandalf]

blog koji vredi pratiti ovih dana, autor je bivsi sef Rojters biroa u Kairu.http://jnthnwrght.blogspot.com/Cairo Slums on the EdgeI spent a fascinating few hours this afternoon and early evening watching riot police and their opponents clash on the edges of the Cairo slum known as Boulak Aboul Ela, which lies just northwest of Galaa Street. Amazingly, for those not familiar with the topography of Cairo, this densely populated area, with narrow unpaved lanes and extreme poverty, lies only a 10-minute walk from Tahrir Square, the very heart of the modern city and the scene of the major protest on Tuesday....The group of protesters, who numbered no more than 200 (there were other groups elsewhere in the city), were clearly outsiders, wealthier and better educated than the local inhabitants. But what struck me most was the evident solidarity of the local people with the protesters and the possibility that at some point the local people too might might come out on the streets. If that happened, the government would be hard-pressed to disperse them by their current methods. The riot police would be overwhelmed and many of the police conscripts (they come largely from among the poorest of the rural poor) would defect or disperse....The lanes were teeming like an ants' nest and the mood was electric. I asked a random selection of about 15 people where their sympathies lay - with the government (as they called the riot police) or the shabab (youth, as they called the protesters)? With one exception (a man who said he was neutral), everyone said they wanted President Hosni Mubarak to go. This time only handfuls of them did appear to join in, but I judged they were fairly close to the tipping point.Unrest in Egypt and the Muslim BrotherhoodThe Brotherhood knows that the world (especially the United States and Europe) are watching events in Egypt closely. If the protests appear to be Brotherhood-led, the government will feel free to use much more brutal methods to disperse protesters. For the moment it suits the Brotherhood's interests to give the impression that there is a broad coalition united against Hosni Mubarak, including liberals and leftists. This explains why Brotherhood members who have taken part in the protests have refrained from chanting slogans with religious connotations. The impression of a broad coalition also helps domestically -- if the Brotherhood take the lead, it would frighten off some of the other groups....The current state of sectarian (Muslim-Copt) tensions in Egypt, especially after the bombing of the church in Alexandria at the New Year, is not conducive to a protest movement in which Islamist slogans and objectives are prominent. Such slogans would be a distraction and could backfire against the Brotherhood.I'm not going to venture a guess at the level of Muslim Brotherhood participation but, judging from my chance encounters with protesters, any assertion that the movement is absent or very thinly represented is probably wishful thinking. By the way, many Brothers are clean-shaven, wear suits and ties and are physically indistinguishable from other Egyptians of the same class.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Gandalf

[Indy]

Evo sta pisu konzervativci: "Islamists stand to gain the most from the so-called popular revolts targeting the regimes of Egypt, Yemin, and Tunisia, Israeli and Middle Eastern security officials warned today."Naravno, Mossad sve zna. "Israeli security officials told WND the Islamists have been taking advantage of populous sentiment against the Arab regimes to work up the masses into revolt that can usher in Islamic rule.Read more:Islamists behind 'protests' toppling Arab regimeshttp://www.wnd.com/?pageId=256373#ixzz1CHABZB3b"

[Muwan]

Ministarstvo unutrašnjih poslova u Egiptu je upravo saopštilo da će sutra, ukoliko bude bilo potrebno, preduzeti "odlučne mere".

[Budja]

BBC je javio da je Obama pre par dana rekao da "nasilje nije resenje". Jer ima neko tu bisernu izjavu?

[luba]

ne ide na dobro.ap snimak ubijanja demonstranta u predgradju kaira.po dzjekobovom tviteru, internet, sms blokirani.evo ti ga obama