Peti oktobar na bliskom istoku i arapskom svetu

[Zmitjkoe]

Ahmadinežad je pozvao svetske lidere da slušaju volju naroda i upozorio da će se talas protesta na Bliskom istoku proširiti u Evropu i Severnu Ameriku.

Zna covek sta prica. Evo nas u aprilu ceka stiropor-revolucija.

[Muwan]

Samo sam se zacudio kako talas nezadovoljstva nikako da zahvati Saudijsku Arabiju (gde seku noseve zenema, ili ih kamenuju, na dnevnoj bazi), Emirate ili Katar (gde induse radnike tretiraju maltene kao Helote u Sparti).

Imaš odgovor na prethodnim stranama - Saudi Arabija nema višemilionsku populaciju gladnih i nezaposlenih ljudi. Svi su (trenutno) u poziciji da se ponašaju kao pijani milioneri dok im uvezeni robovi dirinče za kikiriki. Čak izvoze ono malo domaćeg ološa što imaju, u specijalne policijske snage okolnih zemalja (uključujući Bahrein). Ruke i glave odsecaju narko dilerima, a oko žena postoji sveopšti konsenzus da ih treba tretirati kao roblje. Ali je bottomline taj da su siti i gladnima ne veruju. Ko će tu i zbog čega da se buni? Što se tiče latinoameričkih primera koje si naveo, tamo su Amerikanci mahom svrgavali legalno izabrane predsednike i dovodili svoje diktatore. Zar ti se ne čini da bi u Severnoj Africi proces mogao da bude upravo obrnut?

[Roger Sanchez]

Što se tiče latinoameričkih primera koje si naveo, tamo su Amerikanci mahom svrgavali legalno izabrane predsednike i dovodili svoje diktatore. Zar ti se ne čini da bi u Severnoj Africi proces mogao da bude upravo obrnut?

Rekao bih da je ovih dana situacija upravo suprotna - američki saveznik No1, Kolumbija, je demokracija, dok je susjedni Igrač Velike Igre™ nezamjenjjivi dekretlija.

[Tutankamon]

[Bane5]

Ova mapa je priblizno tacna prema svim informacijama koje stizu iz Libije uz opasku da deo gradova na zapadu koji imaju ovde naznacenu zastavu nisu ujedno i "sigurni" gradovi jer vecina njih (osim mozda Misrate) verovatno nema organizovanu snagu da se suprotstave nasrtaju Pukovnikovih snaga ukoliko bi usledio.Sa druge strane, Pukovnik jedva da ima dovoljno snage da pod svojom kontrolom moze da odrzi Tripoli.Kao sto se vidi na karti, Sirt (Pukovnikovo rodno mesto) je cvrsto pod kontrolom. Tu dominira i njegovo pleme, jedino koje mu u ovoj revoluciji nije okrenulo ledja.ps. brejking njuz: Libyan foriegn affairs said Qaida started an islamic principality in the eastern libya.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Bane5

[Tutankamon]

5.25pm: A National Libyan Airline plane is circling the airspace off the coast of Malta, Al Jazeera's Cal Perry reports from Valletta. "The plane is saying they are running out of fuel and need to land .. they are negotiating with the runway about landing," Perry says.But soldiers have been deployed and authorities are "nervous" about what could be on board the plane, he adds.

[luba]

cini mi se da smo preskocili ovaj kabel ciji je hajlajt senzibilitet srpske diplomatije.

It was further determined that Khamis al-Qadhafi would play a larger role in military procurement, since his Khamis Regiment (the 32nd Brigade) had demonstrated some success in procurement. Muatassim, whom the Serbian Ambassador described as "a bloody man" and "not terribly bright"

evo ga ceo, dosta je zanimljiv.

ID:195954 Cable dated:2009-03-09C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 05 TRIPOLI 000208SIPDISDEPT FOR NEA/MAG, INR/NESAE.O. 12958: DECL: 3/4/2019TAGS: PGOV, PREL, KCOR, ECON, MARR, MASS, PHUM, PINR, LYSUBJECT: LIBYA'S SUCCESSION MUDDLED AS THE AL-QADHAFI CHILDREN CONDUCT INTERNECINE WARFAREREF: A) 08 TRIPOLI 564, B) 08 TRIPOLI 592, C) TRIPOLI 198, D) 08 TRIPOLI 870 , E) 08 TRIPOLI 679, F) 08 TRIPOLI 494, G) TRIPOLI 196, H) TRIPOLI 134, I) 0 8 TRIPOLI 227CLASSIFIED BY: Gene A. Cretz, Ambassador, U.S. Embassy - Tripoli, U.S. Dept of State. REASON: 1.4 (b), (d) 1. © Summary: A series of events since last summer suggest that tension between various children of Muammar al-Qadhafi has increased, XXXXXXXXXXXX. Much of the tension appears to stem from resentment of Saif al-Islam's high-profile as the public face of the regime; however, deeper tension about contradictions between Saif al-Islam's proposed political-economic reforms, XXXXXXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXXXXXX also play an important role. The arrest and intimidation of a number of Saif al-Islam allies since last summer, on the one hand, and moves to circumscribe Muatassim's role in military equipment procurement, on the other, suggest that the current level of discord among al-Qadhafi's children is acute. While internecine strife is nothing new for the famously fractious al-Qadhafi family, the recent escalation of tension comes during a particularly momentous period. Amid turmoil related to the 40th anniversary of the revolution, Muammar al-Qadhafi's recent election as African Union chairman, proposed political-economic reforms and persistent rumors about al-Qadhafi's health and the absence of a viable mechanism to orchestrate a succession, the sharp rivalry between the al-Qadhafi children could play an important, if not determinative role, in whether the family is able to hold on to power after the author of the revolution exits the political scene. End summary.XXXXXXXXXXXX3. © XXXXXXXXXXXX the arrest of Hannibal al-Qadhafi, a son of Muammar al-Qadhafi, in Geneva in mid-July (ref B subsequent) and a visit to Rome by Saadi al-Qadhafi, a son of Muammar al-Qadhafi, against his father's express wishes in early August. Hannibal and Saadi both have checkered histories of unseemly behavior and public scuffles with authorities in Europe and elsewhere. Although Muammar al-Qadhafi was reportedly fed a carefully vetted version of the events attendant to Hannibal's arrest to help minimize the perception that Hannibal was to blame, the elder al-Qadhafi was reportedly vexed that Libya, for reasons of protecting the first family's pride, had to engage in a bilateral spat with Switzerland at a time when it was trying to move ahead with negotiations for a framework agreement with the European Union. XXXXXXXXXXXX... PROMPT AN AL-QADHAFI FAMILY MEETING4. © The upshot of Muatassim's solicitation of funds, Hannibal's arrest and Saadi's jaunt was an al-Qadhafi family meeting in mid-August. Al-Qadhafi reportedly decided to reduce Sanussi's role as a minder for the most troublesome children (he is still a key adviser to Saif al-Islam al-Qadhafi) and toTRIPOLI 00000208 002 OF 005instead assign his daughter, Aisha al-Qadhafi, the task of monitoring the activities of ne'er-do-wells Saadi, Hannibal and Saif al-Arab. (Note: The latter is the least publicly know of al-Qadhafi's children; he lives in Munich, where he pursues ill-defined business interests and spends much time partying. At the meeting, Saadi reportedly criticized his father for having ignored him, and specifically cited the fact that his (Saadi's) efforts to establish an Export Free Trade Zone near the western Libyan town of Zuwara had not enjoyed the kind of support that Muatassim's activities as National Security Adviser or Saif al-Islam's high-profile efforts under the Qadhafi Development Foundation and Libya Youth Forum. As reported ref C, Muammar al-Qadhafi subsequently made an unusual visit to Zuwara last September and significant work on the development project began within a few days of his visit. Although the Zuwara Free Trade Zone is an ambitious and expensive project, XXXXXXXXXXXX5. XXXXXXXXXXXX have told us that Aisha played a strong role in urging a hardline Libyan position with respect to the Swiss-Libyan contretemps over Hannibal's arrest. Separately, the Swiss Ambassador told us that Aisha's less than accurate rendering to her father of the events surrounding Hannibal's arrest and treatment by Swiss authorities helped stoke Muammar al-Qadhafi's anger, limiting the extent to which Libyan and Swiss officials could maneuver to find an acceptable compromise. The Swiss have told us that in the most recent effort between the two sides to resolve the issue in Davos, Saif had approved an agreement that had the Swiss literally bending over backwards to assuage Libyan demands. After making a phone call (to either Aisha or the leader), Saif returned somewhat chastened after several minutes to rescind the aproval. The Swiss crisis, together with other points of intra-family tension, has reportedly brought Aisha, who enjoys closer relations with Hannibal than with her other brothers, together with Hannibal, Saadi and, to a lesser extent, Saif al-Arab. Muatassim reportedly agreed with the hardline approach vis a vis the Swiss and has been closer to Aisha's end of the spectrum than to that of Saif al-Islam, who urged a more moderate approach. Muhammad al-Qadhafi (the eldest son, but by al-Qadhafis' first wife) and Khamis al-Qadhafi (fifth son by al-Qadhafi's second wife and the well-respected commander of a special forces unit that effectively serves as a regime protection unit) have remained neutral. XXXXXXXXXXXX expressed frustration XXXXXXXXXXXX that Saif al-Islam had persisted in his hard-partying, womanizing ways, a source of concern in a socially conservative country like Libya.INCREASED TENSION BETWEEN SAIF AL-ISLAM AND MUATASSIM6. © Against that backdrop of tension, competition between Saif al-Islam, whom most still regard as the heir-apparent, and Muatassim, whose viability as a potential alternative successor has risen since his appointment as National Security Adviser, has increased since last fall. XXXXXXXXXXXX Saif reportedly bridled at the fact that Muatassim accompanied Muammar al-Qadhafi on the latter's visit to Moscow, Minsk and Kiev last year (ref D), and played a key role in negotiating potential weapons contracts. Muatassim (who flew back early) and his older brother Muhammad greeted Muammar al-Qadhafi at the airport upon the latter's return to Tripoli; Saif, who was in town, was pointedly absent. XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXX It was further determined that Khamis al-Qadhafi would play a larger role in military procurement, since his Khamis Regiment (the 32nd Brigade) had demonstrated some success in procurement. Muatassim, whom the Serbian Ambassador described as "a bloody man" and "not terribly bright", XXXXXXXXXXXX7. © Saif al-Islam's highly-publicized visit to the U.S. last November-December exacerbated tension with his siblings, particularly Muatassim, who viewed it as grandstanding. Saif al-Islam's high-profile role as the public face of the regime to the West has been a mixed blessing for him. While it has bolstered his image (he is probably the most publicly-recognized figure in Libya other than Muammar al-Qadhafi), many Libyans view him as self-aggrandizing and too eager to please foreigners at the expense of Libyans' interest. His role in the denouement of the Bulgarian nurses' case, in which he acknowledged in media interviews that the nurses had been tortured and the investigation into their alleged injection of the AIDS virus into Libyan children bungled, badly damaged his reputation. The fact that his recent visit to the U.S. came not long after his August 2008 Youth Forum address - in which he strongly criticized the existing Jamahiriya system of governance, XXXXXXXXXXXX said that most of his proposed reforms had already been achieved, and declared his intention to withdraw from political life to focus solely on civil society issues (ref E) - reportedly irritated his siblings. XXXXXXXXXXXX have suggested to us that Muatassim's desire to visit Washington this spring and his seemingly overweaning focus on having meetings with senior USG officials and signing a number of agreements are driven at least in part by a strong sense of competition with Saif al-Islam.THE KNIVES COME OUT8. © Recent events have fueled speculation that inter-sibling rivalries, and those of the more conservative regime elements they represent, have been increasing. XXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXTRIPOLI 00000208 004 OF 0059. © XXXXXXXXXXXX1 XXXXXXXXXXXX11. © Comment: While internecine strife is nothing new for the famously fractious al-Qadhafi family, the recent escalation of tension between Saif al-Islam and Muatassim, Aisha, Hannibal and Saadi, comes during a particularly momentous period in the Jamahiriya's history. The 40th anniversary of the revolution on September 1, 2009, together with Muammar al-Qadhafi's recent election as Chairman of the AU (ref H), proposed political-economic reforms, consideration of a constitution, and rumored elections, have contributed to a sense that Libya is in the midst of a period of particular political turbulence. XXXXXXXXXXXX told XXXXXXXXXXXX that a draft constitution had been finished and submitted to the General People's Committee (cabinet-equivalent) for approval, and that it could be submitted to the General People's Congress for ratification sometime this year. The UN Resident Representative recently told the Ambassador that Saif al-Islam had established a super-committee under the auspices of the Economic and Development Board to draw up plans to implement wealth distribution and privatization/government restructuring advocated by Muammar al-Qadhafi last March (ref I). XXXXXXXXXXXX Saif al-Islam's recent announcement of a regional organization that would publicly identify specific individuals who perpetrate human rights abuses and target them for sanctions has been interpreted by some local observers as a manifestation of his frustration with the slow pace of reformsTRIPOLI 00000208 005 OF 005and as a threat to conservative regime elements, many of whom personally played a part in the most serious transgressions of the late 1970's and 1980's.12. © Comment (continued): Persistent rumors about Muammar al-Qadhafi's declining health have lent particular urgency to questions about succession scenarios, throwing into stark relief the fact that, absent a constitution, there is no legal mechanism by which to orchestrate such an endeavor and seemingly increasing the stakes for the sibling rivalry. XXXXXXXXXXXX As Libya lurches forward with the effort to balance badly needed economic reform with the appearance of some political re-structuring - all against the backdrop of looming succession issues - the sharp rivalry between the al-Qadhafi children could play an important, if not determinative role, in whether the al-Qadhafi family is able to hold on to power after Muammar al-Qadhafi exits (one way or another) the political scene. End comment. CRETZ

[MancMellow]

Ovo su generacije stasale na Markalama, Srebrenici i Vukovaru, zato treba da razumes zasto su mnogi cinizam usvojili kao odbrambeni sistem.

Realno, ovo je više tačno za generacije koje su odrastale na traženjima izgovora za ono što se desilo na ta tri mesta.

Ne znam za vas, ali meni je sada već frapantnа i zabrinjavajuća ova impotentnost Evrope u ovakvim scenarijima.

Užas. Mada, normalno je da Evropa sa mnogo većom zebnjom prati neizvesnost koja sve ovo prati od Amerike. Gledam ovu mapu i sve mi se više čini da Gadafi nema šanse da pobedi u eventualnom građanskom ratu (ako, ne daj bože, usledi)

[minka]

Što se tiče latinoameričkih primera koje si naveo, tamo su Amerikanci mahom svrgavali legalno izabrane predsednike i dovodili svoje diktatore. Zar ti se ne čini da bi u Severnoj Africi proces mogao da bude upravo obrnut?

Zasto? Vidi, ja ne mislim da je to sto SAD rade sirom sveta nesto neuobicajeno i veoma originalno za veliku silu. Niti zelim da postavljam celu pricu u neke eticke okvire. Zaista treba biti veoma naivan pa verovati da je bilo koja velika sila, bilo kada u istoriji, bilo sta uradila za dobrobit malih naroda i malih drzava. Divide et impera! U krajnjoj instanci, disiznmejkere u SAD ne biramo ti, ja ili neki nesretnik iz bengazija. I nase patnje ne uticu previse na populaciju koju je promisao usrecila da se rode kao drzavljani neke od velikih sila.Dakle, interes SAD gavermenta je blagostanje i sreca americkih gradjana. Drugim recima: jebe im se za narode i narodnosti neke tamo Libije, Egipta ili Srbije. E sad, moja pitanja za tebe su: Da li SAD imaju dovoljno svojih resursa da bi obezbedile srecu i blagostanje svojih gradjana bez izrabljivanja drugih? (edit: SAD uzmi ovde samo uslovno, moze da stoji i "bilo koja velika sila")Da li je lakse izrabljivati demokratsku i stabilnu drzavu ili bananu/diktaturu/krhku Kobojagidrzavicu?Srecom pa se nicija pamet/dobrota/lepota ne mere stepenom podloznosti nekoj propagandi. A koliko mi se kenja od Americko-Evropske "podrske" arapskom narodu (gde ste bili u zadnjih 30 godina, licimuri kikindski), nista mi manju defekaciju ne izaziva ni Rusko slavjanopravoslavno kaisanje sa druge strane. Seti se da su i Sovjetske intervencije u istocnoj evropi isle pod parolom zastite "narodnih demokratija" od "imperijalistickih burzoaskih elita sa zapada". A i Ruska podrska Srbiji oko kosovskog pitanja nije proizasla iz bratske ljubavi i filantropije Treceg Rima.Sad nesto sto nije odgovor tebi i ne odnosi se na tebe ;)Da li zvucim previse cinicno i ogorceno? Naravno! Useravaju mi se u zivot veliki, ali to je ok. Ni kad sam bio klinac nisam bas bio u fazonu da se zatrcim na najjaceg baju u kraju samo zato sto sam u pravu. Ali mi se i tad kenjalo od ljudi koji su me ubedjivali da je on u pravu samo zato sto je jaci. <_< Edited February 23, 2011 by minka

[minka]

ps. brejking njuz: Libyan foriegn affairs said Qaida started an islamic principality in the eastern libya.

jel imas neki link? Da li je Libyan foriegn affairs = Pukovnikovo ili mozda odmetnuto? Jel potvrdio neki nezavisni izvor?

[Аврам Гојић]

Aha, pobunjenici već imaju ministarstvo spoljnih poslova i hvale se uspostavljanjem islamske kneževine Minka, ovo je deo propagande koja već danima odjekuje iz Tripolija: da pobunjenici nameravaju da uspostave islamski kalifat na istoku. O tome je govorio prvo Gadafijev sin, pa onda Gadafi. Ova vest je možda potpuno nova, ali je možda stara i dva dana, ili je samo derivat više vesti na tu temu. Inače ovo ne pišem zbog tebe nego da bih ilustrovao dokle seže tvoja neukost o ovim događajima.

Edited February 23, 2011 by Marko M. Dabovic

[Bane5]

Jel potvrdio neki nezavisni izvor?

libijska drzavna televizija koja prenosi saopstenje svog ministarstva. gde ces zvanicnije?:)moj brejking njuz je bio ironican. ne ulazim u raspravu. potpuno je jasno da je ta vest plasirana u zelji pukovnikovog rezima da nastavi da raspolucuje javnost u libiji mada sumnjam da mu bilo ko veruje jer ionako ne kontrolise mnogo toga.

[Аврам Гојић]

ma Minka se naložio da je neki baja podigao belu Muhamedovu zastavu i osnovao svoj kalifat, a pobunjenički forin ofis koji postoji samo u njegovoj glavi to veselo preneo

[Shan Jan]

U medjuvremenu, saudijski kralj danas izasao sa predlogom reformi (nekako mu je sinulo :D)U malo uvijenoj formi: izbacivanje stranaca, pustanje zatvorenika, pare na sve strane, krediti, socijalna davanja, studenti, hendikepirani... med i mleko.

Real Estate Development Fund1 - Supporting the capital of the Real Estate Development Fund by an additional SR40 billion andaccelerating the process of obtaining loans.2 - the exemption of all borrowers who passed away and the exemption of allborrowers of housing loans with two installments for a period of two years3 - The ministry of finance should compensate the exempted loans to the Real Estate DevelopmentFundSaudi Credit & Saving Bank1 - Raising the capital of the Bank to SR30 billion2 - the exemption of all borrowers who passed away and the exemption of allborrowers of housing loans with two installments for a period of two years3 - The ministry of finance should compensate the exempted loans to the Real Estate DevelopmentFundSocial Security Program1 - Raising the maximum for families covered by the Social Insurance Security systemfrom 8 people to 15 people and allocating SR1 billion.2 - Allocating SR3.5 billion for the activation of the program which includes homefurniture, school uniforms and books, electricity and water bills andrefurnishing homes.3 - Supporting the handicapped associations to by SR1.2 billionCharity associations1 - Increasing the amount of money by the government allocated to the charityassociation by 50% annually to reach SR450 million.2 - Supporting the cooperative associations in Saudi by SR100 million3 - Allocating SR100 million to the National Charity Fund4 - Allocating SR100 million for the students that are in need for money tosupport their educationScholarship Program1 - Admitting all students studying abroad in their own expense to thescholarship programGeneral Housing Authority1 - Allocating an additional SR15 billion to the General Housing Authority budget2 - General Housing Authority should expedite and accelerate housing projectsand report directly in its progress to the Royal CourtJob Creation in regulatory programs 1 - creating 300 jobs in the Saudi General Auditing Bureau2 - Creating 300 jobs in the Saudi Control & Investigation Board3 - Creating 300 jobs in the Saudi Bureau of Investigation and Prosecution4 - Creating 300 jobs in the Saudi Royal Court to communicate with the citizens and find out their needs under the supervision of the President of the Royal Court.Cost of living allowance1 - 15% in basic salary is made permanently rather than temporarilyLiterary and sport clubs1 - Providing the support of the literary clubs in Saudi by allocating SR10 million for each club2 - Proving the support for the sport clubs in Saudi by allocation SR10 million for each team in thepremier league, SR5 for each team in the first division and SR2 for each team in the seconddivision.Professional associations1 - Providing financial support to the licensed professional association by SR10 million for eachassociationDebt and prisoners1 - Paying prisoners debts under certain guidelines2 - Releasing prisoners under certain guidelinesJobs creations1 - Forming a high committee chaired by the second vice prime minister and members of the minister of education, royal cabinet president, minister of finance, minister of labor, minister of civil services,minister of higher education, minister of economy and planning and the minister of social affairs tostudy and solve the unemployment issue and report to the king in four months.2 - Activate the “Saudization” program and replacing the foreigners to Saudis.3 - Increasing the incentives given to the Saudi labor force.4 - Supporting the unemployed youth financially for one yea

Uf, zajebano. Ima primera u africi gde su se ovim popularnim merama raspale ekonomije nekih drzava. Zameniti strucnu radnu snagu sa lokalcima koji su zavrsili navrat-nanos napravljene kruseve ili studentarijom sa slabih domacih univerziteta je veca steta nego korist. Em ce trpeti ekonomija em ces imati vise studenata i obrazovanih ljudi a oni su skloni da se bune. Bolje da im je dao kesh na ruke, na duzi rok ce imati samo jos vecih problema.

[Tutankamon]

Pukovnikova ćerka bila u onom avionu što je kružio oko Malte, rekli mu da se vrati...