Peti oktobar na bliskom istoku i arapskom svetu

[Bane5]

Dima_Khatib:‎ Now what I would imagine #Gaddafi would want to do is try and regain control slowly. Counter-offensive is his plan

[Luka]

moram malo da stanem na stranu novinara (urednika) u domovini.

Dodala bih i ja malo kredita za novinare na ime toga što prisustvujemo događajima bez presedana, po svoj prilici. Ne snalaze se najbolje ni države i vlade kao što možemo da pratimo. Ne snalazi se najbolje ni tzv. stručna javnost, naša i po svetu. Ja sam bila bar na 3 skupa na ovu temu gde su se pretresale razne teze, teorije, istorija, religija... I svi sležu ramenima kad ih pitaš za neke definitivne stvari -- niko ne može da ti kaže nikakvu epohalnu stvar, a svi se manje više slažu da se radi o značajnoj transformaciji sa nesagledivim posledicama.

Analysts were looking ahead to the post-Gaddafi era, but admitted that after 41 years of his rule the country is a "black box" about which it is hard to make predictions. "Everything is fragmented, there are no obvious leaders," said George Joffe of Cambridge University. "Politicians have been functionaries of the regime. The only people with power were in the Gaddafi family or in the tribes."

Inače,

MERKEL SAYS GADDAFI SPEECH WAS VERY VERY FRIGHTENING

el naleteo neko na transkript gadafijevog govora?

[luba]

nemam ceo, ali ovo je sa dosta citata

Libyan leader Moamer Kadhafi ordered his forces on Tuesday to crush an uprising that has rocked his 41-year rule, warning armed protesters they will be executed and vowing to fight to his last. In a defiant, sometimes rambling speech on television, Kadhafi vowed to remain in Libya as head of its revolution, saying he would die as a martyr in the land of his ancestors and fight to the "last drop" of his blood. Proclaiming the support of the people, Kadhafi ordered the army and police to crush the popular uprising against his iron-fisted rule that has already left hundreds dead in the past eight days. Ordering protesters to surrender their weapons immediately, saying there would be a "slaughter" otherwise, he threatened to purge Libya "house by house" and "inch by inch." And he called on the population to take to the streets in a show of support for his regime on Wednesday. In a live, unscripted speech, the 68-year-old former army colonel said, "Moamer Kadhafi is the leader of a revolution; Moamer Kadhafi has no official position in order for him to resign. He is the leader of the revolution forever." "This is my country, my country," he shouted, in a roughly 75-minute speech consisting of short, angry bursts of words, which he punctuated by shaking his fist or pointing his finger. Standing against the backdrop of his house, part of which has been deliberately left unrepaired since it was bombed by US warplanes in 1986, Kadhafi said he would "die a martyr in the land of my ancestors" and "will fight to the last drop of my blood." In retaliation for a bomb in a Berlin night club that killed two Americans, then US president Ronald Reagan ordered air strikes on Libyan military facilities, residential areas of Tripoli and Benghazi and Kadhafi's house. Those attacks killed 101 people, including Kadhafi's adopted daughter. Apparently addressing today's anti-regime protesters, he asked rhetorically: "When they bombed my house and my children, where were you?" "You were with America," he answered. Despite widespread reports that army, police and militias had killed unarmed demonstrators indiscriminately over the past week, Kadhafi said "we have not yet used force." However, he said "if the situation worsens we will use it in line with international law and Libya's constitution." "The Libyan people are with me," he said, calling on them to demonstrate from Wednesday. "Capture the rats," he said of anti-regime demonstrators. "Go out of your homes and storm them" wherever they are. Dressed in a matching light-brown robe, scarf and turban, and wearing glasses, Kadhafi denied that the victims of fighting that has swept the country were young people. "Those killed were from the police and the army; they were not youths," he said, adding that there was a "small sick group" that "gives drugs to these youths." He also said that, as of Tuesday night "we will form committees and we will take the drugs from you." Reading from the penal code, he said "any Libyan who carries arms against Libyans will be punished by death." Kadhafi said protesters who had apparently seized control of some cities and towns deserve to be punished in line with Libyan laws "because they took up arms against the nation." "Surrender the weapons, free the prisoners ... and restore normal life to ports and airports," he said. "No one in his right might can allow the country to be torn apart and to fall into the hands of madmen." Over the weekend, Kahdhafi's son Seif al-Islam went on television and warned against dangers of civil war and a break-up of the country. Libya, which was only forged into a single country under Italian colonial rule in the 1930s, consists of three regions -- Cyrenaica, Tripolitania and Fezzan -- and has more of a tribal than a national consciousness. Kadhafi threatened tough action in line with what he said had been done against insurgents in Moscow and Iraq and freedom protesters in Beijing. "The Russian president brought tanks and bombed the Duma with the MPs inside until they snuffed the rats out, and the West did not object but told him 'you are acting in accordance with the law'. "Students in Beijing protested for days near a Coca Cola sign ... Then the tanks came and crushed them." "American bombed Fallujah by air under the pretext that it was fighting terrorism." Kadhafi ended his speech by saying: "It is high time for the march, for working, for victory. There is no going back, only forward, forward, forward. "Revolution. Revolution. Revolution" were his last words before he banged his fist on a table in front of him and walked away, as several loyalists kissed his hand. State television then began broadcasting footage of Kadhafi supporters cheering and waving flags and banners in Tripoli's Green Square.

[Ayatollah]

Tamnija strana revolucije :

Ukrainian doctors made to work at gunpoint in LibyaAround 3,000 medics from Ukraine who are currently working in Libya have been forced to serve the needs of the revolution at gunpoint, Ukrainian Komsomolskaya Pravda reports Tuesday. Hundreds of wounded and killed have been taken to hospitals and the morgues are full, doctors say. People in military uniform are reportedly keeping control in the city of Benghazi and forcing the local doctors keep working. Security guards are manning the entrance. Doctors’ families have to sit in basements and wait for help. As communications are not working, the Ukrainian embassy cannot control the situation in the cities. The physicians also report fuel and food shortages and say there is no way to leave the place.

Inače, što više pratim Al Džaziru, sve mi se više od iste povraća. Ja znam da je Gadafi opasan ludak, ali ovakvu količinu najjeftinijeg senzacionalističkog propagandnog smeća nisam video još od 1999. godine i našeg bombardovanja. Sve je opet tu - zli diktator koji puca po ženi i deci iz aviona i hrabar goloruki narod koji ide grudima na bajonete da bi se izborio za slobodu, uz sav prateći folklor i histeriju, jedino u zaglavlju ne piše CNN, već Al Džazira (a da, sad postoji i Twitter, ali to je deo novog folklora). Ne postoji ni nagoveštaj nagoveštaja da se situaciji u Libiji priđe iz nekog kritičkog ugla, antigadafijevci dobijaju 98 % prostora, u preostalih 2 % se sagovornici vređaju i omalovažavaju, otvoreno se navija za jednu stranu u sukobu. Govno od televizije.

[ArleKino]

Ne postoji ni nagoveštaj nagoveštaja da se situaciji u Libiji priđe iz nekog kritičkog ugla, antigadafijevci dobijaju 98 % prostora, u preostalih 2 % se sagovornici vređaju i omalovažavaju, otvoreno se navija za jednu stranu u sukobu. Govno od televizije.

Pravda za Moamera!

[Utvara]

Tamnija strana revolucije :Inače, što više pratim Al Džaziru, sve mi se više od iste povraća. Ja znam da je Gadafi opasan ludak, ali ovakvu količinu najjeftinijeg senzacionalističkog propagandnog smeća nisam video još od 1999. godine i našeg bombardovanja. Sve je opet tu - zli diktator koji puca po ženi i deci iz aviona i hrabar goloruki narod koji ide grudima na bajonete da bi se izborio za slobodu, uz sav prateći folklor i histeriju, jedino u zaglavlju ne piše CNN, već Al Džazira (a da, sad postoji i Twitter, ali to je deo novog folklora). Ne postoji ni nagoveštaj nagoveštaja da se situaciji u Libiji priđe iz nekog kritičkog ugla, antigadafijevci dobijaju 98 % prostora, u preostalih 2 % se sagovornici vređaju i omalovažavaju, otvoreno se navija za jednu stranu u sukobu. Govno od televizije.

Šta pričaš bre, lupetaš pustili su Gadafija lično da ti objasni sve šta treba. Ako ti LIČNO Moamer nije objasnio o čemu se radi ko će? Lepo je čovek LIČNO sat vremena govorio, sve je to CIA Vatikan i masonska zavera. Audiatur et altera pars u najboljem pravničkom maniru. Bio i njegov sin na Al Džaziri sasvim dovoljno, slažu se ljudi u pitanju je jeftini afganistanski dop iz Egipta i Tunisa. Edited February 22, 2011 by Utvara

[Luka]

ovo se mnogo brzo razvija, za nekoliko dana do razmatranja intervencije mada ne baš "direktno vojne"..

It is time for foreign intervention: The world has been "challenged to act," says Marc Lynch in Foreign Policy, just as it was "Bosnia or Kosovo, or even Rwanda." That doesn't mean "a direct military intervention," but the U.S. and its allies must go beyond simply condemning Gadhafi. The best bet is a no-fly zone over Libya — at least that way Gadhafi won't be able to "butcher" his opponents using military aircraft."Intervening in the Libyan tragedy"

[Eraserhead]

Ayatollah je generalno u pravu ali ne vidim da u ovom slucaju kada se puca na ljude izvestavanje moze ili treba da bude drugacije. Meni je to vise smetalo u slucaju Egipta ali ovde je situacija jasna.

[vinska musica]

Lilic uzbudjeno drhti pred tv-om

A ni Nedi Ukraden nije lako.

[Tutankamon]

1917: More from the BBC's Jon Leyne in eastern Libya: This whole area, maybe even as much as half of the country, is under the control of the opposition. There's not a big fear that Colonel Gaddafi is going to retake this area, it seems to have gone too far for that. The fear is how much havoc he will wreak in a last stand in Tripoli. He is retreating to an ever smaller circle.

[Utvara]

Ayatollah je generalno u pravu ali ne vidim da u ovom slucaju kada se puca na ljude izvestavanje moze ili treba da bude drugacije. Meni je to vise smetalo u slucaju Egipta ali ovde je situacija jasna.

see above. Kako je generalno u pravu kad su pustili i Moamera i njegovog sina na njihovu televiziju, po sat vremena su pričali i rekli su da su čurke, dop i mirni protesti opasni po srčku.

[morgana]

solidna emisija na hrt-u upravo. ne da ista epohalno govore, al valja za nas sto o libiji znamo samo da tamo ima dosta kamila.

[luba]

kuva se, po svemu sudeci, nesto, ali dokle ce se stici veceras, da li samo do izjave saveta bezbednosti koja osudjuje... ili nesto vise, ce se vidi.jedan diplomata: even though china and russia traditionally oppose interference in the internal affairs of a country, "there was a general recognition that it is now a very serious situation and the violence has reached a shocking level."malo je haos sa predstavnicima libije, zamenik ambasadora u un ibrahim dabbashi je na strani naroda, poslao pismo da trazi no-fly zone i humanitarni koridor. sam ambasador (onaj za koga se suska da ce mozda biti pola od elbaradeja) mohamed shalgham, inace pukovnikov prijatelj iz detinjstva, rekao da ne podrzava bas svaki postupak svog zamenika, ali tvrdi da je rekao tripoliju da nasilje mora da prestane.i mama hilari

Libya violence 'completely unacceptable': Clinton

[luba]

desno i levo zajedno u americi, od wp ne cudi, ali da je murdok okrenuo curak, zanimljivo.

Two major US papers called for the swift ouster of Libya's Moamer Kadhafi, with the Washington Post saying his regime must be tried for "crimes against humanity" while The Wall Street Journal suggested arming protesters. Under the headline "Liberating Libya," the Journal accused Kadhafi of "murdering his own people" in a brutal crackdown, as he "so often has during his benighted 42-year reign." On its right-leaning editorial page, the daily said Washington and Europe "should be doing far more to help the Libyan people end Kadhafi's rule," and that the West should "bomb their airfields if they continue to slaughter their people. "Arming demonstrators also cannot be ruled out," it added. "The worst policy would be to encourage the demonstrators without giving them the tools to prevail." Libyan protesters launched their anti-Kadhafi uprising on February 15 but have also borne the brunt of a violent backlash by security forces that rights groups said has cost up to 400 lives. Libya's armed forces reportedly bombarded the cities of Tripoli and Benghazi, while Libya's ambassador to Washington, Ali Ageli who spoke out Tuesday against Kadhafi's "dictatorship regime," said security forces were turning tanks, troops and bulldozers on the population. The Journal, recalling various anti-American attacks attributed to Libya since the 1980s, labeled Kadhafi as "the Arab world's terrorist-in-chief" and said he has "more American blood on his hands than anyone living other than Osama bin Laden." The Washington Post said Kadhafi "must be ousted and held accountable for his crimes," and that the US administration should make a public call for regime change. The "atrocities... demand not just condemnation but action by the outside world" including raising Libya's case before the UN Security Council, which "should request that the International Criminal Court take up the case," the paper said in its editorial. "What is occurring in Tripoli and other cities is not only lethal repression but also crimes against humanity," it said. Whether or not the Kadhafis remain in power, "they should be brought to justice for the bloodshed they have caused," it added.

[Roger Sanchez]

I mi Lilića za trku imademo! Mesqeta:

Libija bi morala smoći snage da istraži tu veliku dramu, i točno utvrdi tko je naložio ubijanje demonstranata, kaže MesićTeško mi je Gadafija vezati uz nalog za pucanje u demonstrante. Koliko ga znam, oslobađao je one koje bi sudovi kažnjavali zbog toga što su mu se protivili. Libija bi morala smoći snage da istraži tu veliku dramu, i točno utvrdi tko je naložio ubijanje demonstranata, izjavio je danas za Novi list bivši predsjednik Stjepan Mesić, dobar osobni poznanik Moamera Gadafija, čiji je režim proteklih dana ubio više od 250 protuvladinih demonstranata. Naglašavajući kako nema dovoljno informacija da bi mogao meritorno suditi, Mesić je ocijenio kako će libijski režim vjerojatno morati doživjeti "strukturalne promjene". Sustav funkcionira dok postoji "integrativni faktor", sam Moamer Gadafi, koji je državnu strukturu stvorio praktički poslije svoje revolucije. "To je režim sui generis. Gadafi nema mjesto u strukturi države: nije šef države, predsjednik, nije premijer, nije ministar, nikad nije uzeo čin generala. Autoritet je naprosto kao vođa revolucije, što je i njegov službeni naziv. Tako on odlučuje i daje mišljenja. Sada tek treba vidjeti hoće li se ta struktura mijenjati, i kako", kazao nam je Mesić. Po njegovu mišljenju, u Libiji upravo traje "velika drama". "Ne može se tako sprečavati demostracije. Njima ljudi javno izražavaju svoju volju, što je u demokratskome svijetu posve prihvatljivo. To što zahtijevaju promjene, ne znači da ih se može ubijati. Postavlja se pitanje odgovornosti, tko je sve to naložio", kaže bivši predsjednik Mesić.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Roger Sanchez