Tenis 2011

[gone fishing]

- da ali je zanimljivo zašto je toliko rizikovao 1 servis, evo jednog zanimljivog osvrta na to pitanje

Nadal has a serious ailment with his legs. The first this showed up was in the ATP Worlf Tour finals when he gave it all he had for a set and simply succumbed to Fed's onslaught. Then it showed at the AO, and now at IW. Look, there is a reason why a 75% First Serve player goes for broke to get 129 and 130 mph serves, even when he is having dismal percentage. He is trying to end the match early before his legs give out. That is exactly the Nadal you saw at the USO (when it paid off), and today (when it did not). Nadal will mask it through the clay season, but when he fails at Wimbledon and USO, everyone will know. It should not take a great analyst to figure this out. Nadal is paying the price for his style of play. Nole was fantastic, and deserves the success he is experiencing.

komentar sa tennis.com

[Jozef K.]

Servisa.

Meni je njegovo kretanje delovalo dosta lošije. Bilo bi dobro da se to prevede, kako JokerNole drži mnogo visoko razinu igre i da bi ga dobio moraš konstantno biti iznad nje. A to je teško, pa su onda padovi jaki. Mada, ako je samonedostatak spreme posle povrede, onda je RN tek čudo. Videćemo još ove godine. Možda najviše na USO, gde je ko i šta je ko uradio.

[Alphons]

^^ Stvarno šteta, ako je istinito.Nadal je mlad, i već je uspeo da promeni svoj stil igre do određene mere. Možda bi bilo najbolje za njega da odmori duži vremenski period, bez obzira na siguran pad na listi, ali da se vrati i krene ponovo ka broju 1. Neće se ništa promeniti do 2012, i dalje će tu biti samo Novak i Fed kao prepreke.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Alphons

[harper lee]

- da ali je zanimljivo zašto je toliko rizikovao 1 servis, evo jednog zanimljivog osvrta na to pitanje

Zato sto je bio u komfort zoni sa drugim servisom. Ako se ne varam u setu koji je dobio izgubio je samo dva poena na svoj drugi servis. Nije Nadal nista spektakularno servirao ni u tom prvom setu ali Novak jednostavno nije nalazio odgovor na Rafin drugi servis. Za igraca sa takvim reternom je krajnje neobicno, gotovo bi se moglo reci senzacionalno, da pusti protivnika na 78% osvojenih poena na drugi servis. Drugi servis Nadala je napravio razliku u tom setu. Kad je taj procenat otisao niz vodu nestalo je i velikog broja lakih poena posle drugog servisa i povecao se pritisak na prvi servis, a prvi servis se nekad pronadje u toku meca a nekad i ne. Nadal ga nije pronasao i to je to.Ima necega i u tome, bar se meni cinilo sve vreme, da Nadal nije u svom uobicajenom terminator izdanju kad su fizikalije u pitanju, tako da nije nemoguce da je ovaj komentator sa tennis.com u pravu. Nadal je igrao isuvise malo meceva protiv top guns ove sezone. Bilo je primetno da popravlja i igru i staminu sto se vise turnir blizi kraju ali nije to onaj Nadal koji ce pet setova da trci na svaku loptu i natera te da krvavo radis za svaki poen. Trci on i sada ali je cesto za dlaku kraci na lopti nego sto mu treba za one njegove udarce iz carapa pa pravi mnogo vise neiznudjenih gresaka nego sto je to ranije bio slucaj. Cini mi se da je Rafa bacio sve karte na to da u dva seta dobije mec jer je verovatno i sam bio svestan da mu nece ostati mnogo goriva za treci ali je Novak uspeo da podigne igru, odbrani onaj kljucni osmi (ili deveti?) gem u drugom setu i uvede mec u fazu u kojoj je on bio u usponu a Rafa u padu. Ostatak je manje-vise bila stvar rutine i samopouzdanja, a samo teniski bogovi znaju koliko je toga u Novakovoj igri trenutno.Jebi ga, tenis je na ovom nivou kombinacija mnogo faktora. Zato mislim da je malo preambiciozno i preterano navijacki traziti dlaku u ovom ili onom jajetu za neciji poraz. Ne secam se da se ranije, pre rivalstva izmedju Rafe i Feda, toliko spekulisalo sa tim koliko pojedini igraci gube zbog ove ili one dlake koja im je zasmetala. Mislim da je to posledica navijacke mantre navijaca ova dva igraca da nijedan od njih ne moze da izgubi ni od koga kad je na vrhu svoje igre. Medjutim, sta znaci "vrh svoje igre"? Ne znaci nista. Vrh tvoje igre je ono sto si u stanju da odigras u tom trenutku. Svi znamo da Nadal moze bolje od ovoga sto je odigrao u ovom finalu ali u tom finalu je igrao tako kako je igrao jer nije mogao bolje. Ne moze se stalno, godinama, iz meca u mec igrati tenis na najvisem mogucem nivou koji si pokazao jednom ili dva puta ranije. Ne ide to.

[freakns]

znaci pored svih hvalospeva NJoletu(i to zasluzenih, da se ne varamo), dok je Nadal igrao svoj najbolji tenis(prvi set) NJole je ipak bio malo kraci. prvi set je bio nestvaran tenis, bolji od onog polufinala Madrida. nakon toga Nadal je mnogo pao u igri. poceo je da kasni na udarce, samim tim poceo da promasuje. treci set je bio vec formalnost. Nadal fizicki u trecem setu vise nije bio svoj... generalno na AO, a i sada se videlo da kada ga neko maksimalno pritisne i kada mora maximalno da se krece u jednom momentu on jednostavno vise ne moze... ako se taj trend nastavi, nadam se da ce Nadal odustati od svog tvrdoglavog igranja po cenu zdravlja, uzeti odmor koliki mu treba(dovoljno je mlad, moze ako treba i sezonu da propusti), i vratiti se. u suprotnom plasim se da ne okonca karijeru prerano, ili nastavi da igra vrhunski samo na sljaci. to bi bio stravican gubitak za tenis :( a i NJoletovo prvo mesto koje se svakako nazire bi imalo drugaciji ukus :D

[duda]

meni jedino nije jasno zasto nole ovaj mec od starta nije igrao kako je i ranije igrao protiv nadala na betonu, tj. sa mnogo ravnijim udarcima.kad je visko izasao sa podatkom da (za prvi set govorim) noletove lopte u proseku lete preko mreze vise nego nadalove, nisam mogla da verujem, iako sam se i sama pitala koji mu je djavo sa tolikom spinovanjem.

[gone fishing]

to mu je bila taktika, evo još jedne odlične analize djokerovog dugogodišnjeg simpatizera

Steve, you know I'm a fan, but two straight days you've failed to mention the return of serve as a key element in the two matches (right after Gasquet gave a clue as to what might be Djokovic's main competitive advantage versus everyone else in the field). Yesterday Djokovic manhandled Jacket in the first set by pretty much returning every single serve of his, and today Djokovic almost took himself out of the match by his inability to put many of Nadal's serves back in play (especially 2nd serves!) Here are some numbers for you: In today's first set, Nadal served at 57%, which is kind of low for him. HOWEVER, he managed to lose all of 5 points on serve (18 out of 23). He was 8 for 10 on second serve points won!!! Not even Karlovic gets those numbers, and Djokovic routinely keeps opponents in the 30s and low 40s in percentage of second serve points won. As you can imagine, I was not enjoying that first set at all. I just couldn't understand how Djokovic could go from getting a great read on one of the toughest serves in history, to not being able to put back in play Nadal's second serves (let alone his first serves). It was just baffling. The other aspect of Djokovic's game that was driving me crazy in that first set is how reluctant he seemed to flatten out his strokes, particularly his forehand. Not only that, but he was not taking the forehand on the rise at all, so Nadal had plenty of time to deal with whatever Djokovic decided to attack him with. In the past, Djokovic has had success against Nadal by hitting flat at Nadal's forehand side. Today (and for much of the US Open final), it seemed like he not only forgot that he should do that, but that he COULD do that. Anyway, here are the numbers for the second set: Nadal served at 25% (yikes), and only won 2 of 6 points on his first serve. However, Nadal did manage to win 12 of 18 second serves (67%). After trading breaks, the tide started to turn, as you can only survive for so long without making your first serves, since your opponent might start making you pay for starting off with a weak second serve. In this case, considering Djokovic's ability to return serves, that should have happened way earlier. Now, Djokovic's service stats were nothing out of the ordinary, but he did improve his percentage of second serve points won by a slight margin (moved into the low 40s) The third set, when Djokovic finally imposed his will and clamped down on Nadal's serve, has some revealing numbers: Nadal served at 45%, and won 8 of 10 first serve points. However, most of these first serves came after he was down 4-0. In the set, Nadal managed to win just 3 of 12 second serve points, which typically happens when Djokovic is returning well AND his opponent has lost confidence on his own serve. On the other hand, Djokovic lost only one point on his serve in the entire third set. So by finally putting pressure on Nadal's second serve, Djokovic managed to take Nadal out of his comfort zone while serving, but also while returning. Nadal is quite right when he says he controlled much of the first set. It felt that way, and the stats back him up (plus, how can you not feel great when you only lose 5 points on your serve?). But when Djokovic finally foun his focus, flattened his shots and put the pressure on Nadal's second serve, it was Djokovic who was in control of the points. Early on, it seemed like Nadal was getting everything he wanted from Djokovic, and that the Serb was finding it hard to take him away from that comfort zone. In the third, it seemed like Djokovic was getting anything he wanted from Nadal, and the no.1 just seemed lost out there. Before I forget, another little aspect that helped Djokovic was finding a serving spot that was delivering the goods every single time: the slice out wide on the deuce court almost always returned a tame return back that he could easily turn into a point in his favor. In the first set, it looked like the match was being played on clay, where winning a point off Nadal seems like an unsurmountable challenge. All in all, this is one of Djokovic's top 5 wins, for many reasons: - He was 0-5 against Nadal in finals (and 0-4 in Slams). Hard to call this a rivalry if only one player wins all the matches.- For the first time, he beat Nadal in a three-set match. Had only won in straight sets before. - He had lost 2 straight times to Nadal.- Hadn't beaten the world number 1 in a while.- Won a Masters Series twice for the first time in his career. Anyway, this is so much better than 2008. The similarities have been eerie, but this is where they should end, for us Djokovic fans. We all remember what happened after Djokovic won Indian Wells back them: he lost to freaking Kevin Anderson in Miami, where he was the defending champion.

edit bolje da stavim u spoiler :D + još jedan osvrt

Good analysis Juan José. I felt since the start of the match that Novak started pretty tense. His return was just terrible and he was also pretty timid going for the lines (except in the first game on his serve). In both, 1st and 2nd set he tried to play with less risk a-la Nadal and hit topspins of his forehand, most of times leaving the ball in the hanging in the middle. This drove me crazy as clearly Nadal did take advantage of it. However, there is another thing that called my attention. While two matches are insufficient to draw a definite conclusion, I've noticed that Novak's strategy seems to have changed. In both occasions, he definitely seemed to save an extra gear for the final set. If you take a better look, he used to come out after Nadal right at the beginning trash him the first set and then gradually decline to end up winning with big struggle. I always thought that model of play although very attractive was not going to get him to the next level since it was way too high risk even in best of 3 while in best of 5 it was simply suicidal. So, I think it is definitely better tactic to start slowly, play opponent's game, and then when the counterpart is worn down mentally take it to another level and finish him off. While it's tricky, I think the payoff is better and all depends only on one thing... the confidence and certainly it doesn't require him to play his best tennis the entire match rather, just at few critical moments. The guy we saw today has it all. It's such shame he couldn't do this back in 2008... the history would be different.

Edited March 21, 2011 by gone fishing

[duda]

ne znam, cudna mi je to logika.ovde se igralo na 2 dobivena i ne kapiram da je bolje krenuti iz minus seta nego odmah krenuti jako, kao sto je radio i ranije.ili je nole imao neke insjderske informacije pa je krenuo da izmara nadala

[keitel]

meni jedino nije jasno zasto nole ovaj mec od starta nije igrao kako je i ranije igrao protiv nadala na betonu, tj. sa mnogo ravnijim udarcima.kad je visko izasao sa podatkom da (za prvi set govorim) noletove lopte u proseku lete preko mreze vise nego nadalove, nisam mogla da verujem, iako sam se i sama pitala koji mu je djavo sa tolikom spinovanjem.

Ja mislim da se jednostavno stegao, što se vidjelo po mehanici njegovih udaraca. Toliki spin je posljedica skučenosti u ramenima. Na 5-3 za Nadala u prvom setu Đoković je odigrao onaj gem sa četiri direktna poena gdje je posle svakog gledao u nebesa i cinično se osmjehivao, u stilu, je li moguće da ovo nisam mogao ranije?Imam utisak da je opterećenost rang listom pomalo uticala da Novak ne pruži u poslednja dva meča ono što može. Realno, oba meča je dobio zahvaljujući padu rivala. Šteta bi bila da sada uslijed nekih ciljeva koje je sebi postavio pod moranje bitne mečeve u ostatku sezone igra u ovakvom grču.

[Timmy]

Nole se uplasio Nadala na pocetku. Suvise ga respektuje, kao igraca i coveka, a nije nebitan ni podatak da ga nikad nije dobio u finalu. Sve je to ljudski faktor koji se ne moze iskljuciti i ne moze se gledati igra kao skup udaraca i kretanja.Kad se oslobodio sve je doslo na svoje.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Timmy

[gone fishing]

^^ Stvarno šteta, ako je istinito.Nadal je mlad, i već je uspeo da promeni svoj stil igre do određene mere. Možda bi bilo najbolje za njega da odmori duži vremenski period, bez obzira na siguran pad na listi, ali da se vrati i krene ponovo ka broju 1. Neće se ništa promeniti do 2012, i dalje će tu biti samo Novak i Fed kao prepreke.

jeste šteta ali je pitanje da li bi ikad osvojio sve što jeste da je igrao sa manje od 100% svojih mogućnosti...- pitanje je da li je nešto naučio iz 2009 kada je u 1/2 finalu madrida zapeo kao konj da dobije djokera koji je opet dao sve od sebe da pobedi, to je rezultovalo da izgubi ne samo finale tog turnira već da zbog povrede koju je zaradio u 1/2 finalu izgubi RG i W i omogući fedbotu status GOAT-a - da li će biti spreman da odustane od titula u rimu ili madridu ako ponovo naleti na super motivisanog djokera ili fedbota, soderlinga itd, da li će umeti da tankira u takvim 1/2 finalima, finalima, i tako sačuva svežinu za RG i W- on više nema potrebe za nekim dokazivanjem, na šljaci ili bilo kojoj podlozi, a igrači se kada završe karijeru pamte po tome koliko su GS titula uzeli, nekoliko masters-a gore dole koga briga

[Afterburner]

eto sale niotkudazanimljivo je bilo citati pesimisticke komentare u toku meca nevezano za to, da krenem redom

nema odje leba... na teren je, umjesto strasnog Novaka koga smo gledali posljednjih par mjeseci, opet izasao uplaseni mali djokica iz 2009-2010... onaj koji ne moze vola da ubode kad je frka.mislim, da poslije onakvog ribrejka za 3-3, onako mizerno odservira moze samo taj mali djokica

on je izasao 1)vrlo umoran (manje od 24h za oporavak2)emotivno istrosen u polufinalu3)pod velikim pritiskomprotiv rafe koji je1_imao tragicno smesan zreb do polufinala2)vrlo brzo resavao meceve i cuvao energiju3)koji je vrlo moguce poklekao na psiholoskoj ravni jer juce nije igrao sa standardnim djokicom, koliko god tako mnogima delovalo, a jeste

Sad bi valjalo čuti statistiku koliko puta je u poslednjih 100 mečeva Nadal izgubio kad je dobio prvi set.

u 95% svojih meceva u kojima bi dobio prvi set, nadal je izlazio kao pobednik

Pa, Rafa je prvi poceo na US Openu kad je pohvalio Novaka da je podjednako gracious i u pobedi i u porazu, aludirajuci bez pardona na Fedovu kuknjavu na Australian Openu. Sad posto su obojica prostrli Fedovu kozhu preko patosa da im ne zebu noge moze im se da ga malo podjebavaju. Dosta je, vala, i on kenjao po svakome. :D

dobro receno i britko receno.

Ajmo sada posle prospavane noći. Realno, Rafa je imao ozbiljan pad. Samo me interesuje čega je posledica.

apsolutno se moze reci i da je novak imao pad. Njegov ritern na drugi servis je bio patetican, pa ipak, iz ta 2 pada samo je jedan ustao. lepo je videti da je to bio onaj koji je 5 puta pre toga pasao travu.

meni jedino nije jasno zasto nole ovaj mec od starta nije igrao kako je i ranije igrao protiv nadala na betonu, tj. sa mnogo ravnijim udarcima.kad je visko izasao sa podatkom da (za prvi set govorim) noletove lopte u proseku lete preko mreze vise nego nadalove, nisam mogla da verujem, iako sam se i sama pitala koji mu je djavo sa tolikom spinovanjem.

rafa se lose snalazi sa visokim loptama (one su inace novaku omiljene) jer mu je tada limitiran spin. istina jeste da su ravne lopte (moram reci da mnogo vise volim takve udarce) bile vecinski recept kojim je novak do sada dobijao nadala, medjutim, imam utisak da je novak sada smatrao strpljenje svojim saveznikom jer ga je izdavalo toliko puta ranije, kada je udarao ravno, po linijama, rizicno i po mnogima neizbezno da bi se pobedio nadal. malo rafinog recepta nije lose, cisto u formi uriniranja po teritoriji i raznovrsnosti sopstvenog stila. svaka cast ovom momku, debela lekcija i promatracima i igracima. Edited March 21, 2011 by Afterburner

[Afterburner]

btw novak je rodzera unistio tim visokim loptama koje su smrt za jednorucni bh

[amare]

Vidim sve je manje kenjatora i anti-Novaka.Lepo je to videti na ovom forumu.

[Lynn]

Nema Novaka bez anti-Novaka :)Tako to biva.