Amerika, zemlja velika

[3opge]

sasvim izvesno ce postati kandidat ako SCOTUS udeli trumpu svileni gajtan, odlucivace vrlo skoro.

 

[vememah]

Stvarno misliš da ima neke šanse za to u sudu u kome je dvaput više sudija koje su nominovali republikanski predsednici od onih koje su nominovale demokrate (6:3)?

[3opge]

6 minutes ago, vememah said:

Stvarno misliš da ima neke šanse za to u sudu u kome je dvaput više sudija koje su nominovali republikanski predsednici od onih koje su nominovale demokrate (6:3)?

 

nadam se da ih ima bar 2-3 kojima se trump zgadio a ima i ovo valjda neku tezinu:

Section 3

 

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Edited December 29, 2023 by 3opge

[vememah]

Sad sam gledao, Trampovih je troje, dvojica su Buša Seniora i jedan Buša Juniora. Od demokratskih dve su Obamine i jedna Bajdenova.

 

https://ballotpedia.org/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States

[duma]

19 minutes ago, vememah said:

 

49 minutes ago, vememah said:

 

Ankete u ovom trenutku kažu da je ona najjači republikanski kandidat, naime Bajden na nacionalnom nivou gubi od Hejli za čak 3,8 pp, od Trampa za 1,4 pp, a od Desantisa za 0,8 pp.

 

Biden: 40.8%
Haley: 44.6%

 

Biden: 43.6%
Trump: 45%

 

Biden: 43.7%
DeSantis: 44.5%

 

https://www.racetothewh.com/president/polls

Razmatra li se mogućnost da se možda kandiduje neko drugi, umesto Bajdena, ili boljeg nemaju? Šta li će ako načisto flipne do izbora? 

Pišeš o sudijama kao da je reč o Srbiji. Ipak je tamo sudstvo nešto ozbiljnije. 

 

29 minutes ago, 3opge said:

sasvim izvesno ce postati kandidat ako SCOTUS udeli trumpu svileni gajtan, odlucivace vrlo skoro.

Na šta je spala Amerika. Potrebno je jednog Trampa sprečiti da izađe na izbore da ih ne bi dobio. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by duma

[ObiW]

Probaš da napraviš državni udar, ne uspeš, pa ti onda tamo neki sud ne dozvoli da opet ideš na izbore, iste one koje si hteo da uzurpiraš. Demokratija propo.

[vememah]

Jedino što još nigde nije osuđen za to što je hteo da napravi državni udar, tako da je zabrana učestvovanja bez takve presude svakako sporna.

  

40 minutes ago, duma said:

Pišeš o sudijama kao da je reč o Srbiji. Ipak je tamo sudstvo nešto ozbiljnije. 

 

Neka me neko slobodno ispravi, ali po dosadašnjim presudama nisam baš imao utisak da mnogo odstupaju od stavova stranaka koje su ih tamo poslale.

Edited December 29, 2023 by vememah

[duma]

25 minutes ago, ObiW said:

Probaš da napraviš državni udar, ne uspeš, pa ti onda tamo neki sud ne dozvoli da opet ideš na izbore, iste one koje si hteo da uzurpiraš. Demokratija propo.

Ne vidiš ništa problematično u tome što bi takav ako uspe da se kandiduje mogao da pobedi kandidata Demokrata? 

SAD su baš u gadnim govnima ako pored svega pobrojanog takav može da pobedi na izborima. Prema postavljenoj anketi čak i on ima veće šanse od Bajdena. Nema boljeg od Bajdena da mu stane na crtu?

Edited December 29, 2023 by duma

[Weenie Pooh]

1 hour ago, vememah said:

Jedino što još nigde nije osuđen za to što je hteo da napravi državni udar, tako da je zabrana učestvovanja bez takve presude svakako sporna.

 

Još luđe, nije ni optužen za to. (Osim na Tviteru i u glavama naloženih branitelja demokratije.)

 

Bio je impeached pod sumnjom za to, ali impičment je preporuka a ne optužnica. Štaviše, tužilaštvo je decidno odbilo da je podigne po tom osnovu.

 

Why Jack Smith didn’t charge Trump with inciting an insurrection:

 

Quote

 

When the Jan. 6 House committee formally referred Trump for criminal charges last year, insurrection was one of the counts included. It would allege that Trump was directly involved in the storming of the Capitol on Jan. 6. But including that charge would’ve complicated the case and been harder to prove than the broader conspiracy charges, Dennis Aftergut, a former federal prosecutor, writes in Slate. “That narrowing increases the prospects for a pre-election trial.”

One of the reasons an insurrection charge could be complicated: Prosecutors would have to rely on Trump’s speech the day of the riot to prove he was encouraging a riot. That kind of argument could face “potentially tricky First Amendment issues,” former assistant U.S. attorney Randall Eliason writes in The New York Times. Those legal disputes “would have been time-consuming and distracting because the speech could be easily characterized as a political rally.”

The charge of “conspiracy against rights,” a civil rights law that prohibits trying to deprive someone of their right to vote, can serve as a more straightforward stand-in for an insurrection charge, which is rarely brought in court. The conspiracy charge, on the other hand, has been successfully tested. — Just Security

There was outsized attention on a possible insurrection charge in part because the Constitution’s 14th Amendment bars anyone who engages in insurrection from holding office. In theory, a conviction would disqualify Trump from serving a second term in the White House. — The Washington Post

While the lack of an incitement charge simplifies the case against Trump, we’re still in uncharted legal territory, especially given that the defendant is the former president. Smith’s case “requires some unprecedented interpretations of the U.S. criminal code” — including proving that Trump knew he lost the election — and shouldn’t be seen as a slam dunk, Jim Geraghty argues in National Review.

 

 

[dragance]

Nije optužen za insurrection, već je vrhovni sud Kolorada to zaključio, nakon što je ustanovljeno da je nelegalno prekrajao, tj pokušao da prekroji rezultate izbora i nahuška svesno rulju na Kongres.

 

Trump faces two federal cases, including one accusing him of unlawfully attempting to reverse his 2020 election lossto Democrat Joe Biden and another over his handling of classified documents upon leaving office.

 

Drugim rečima, nije šija, nego vrat.

[Weenie Pooh]

4 hours ago, 3opge said:

Section 3

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

 

3 hours ago, ObiW said:

Probaš da napraviš državni udar, ne uspeš, pa ti onda tamo neki sud ne dozvoli da opet ideš na izbore

 

1 hour ago, dragance said:

Drugim rečima, nije šija, nego vrat.

 

Nije šija-vrat već vrlo ozbiljna distinkcija između diskvalifikujućeg protivustavnog akta i nebitnog prekršaja protokola.

 

Kako izgleda kad gubitnici ospore rezultate izbora imali smo prilike bezbroj puta da gledamo u Srbiji, nekima je čak i prolazilo. Zato se kod nas to retko meša sa konstrukcijama tipa "insurrection", "rebellion", ili "pokušaj državnog udara".

 

Ali nežni američki senzibilitet nema iskustva u tom pogledu, zato se sablažnjavaju na samu pomisao da se protivnik može necimnuti na telefon radi čestitanja pobede, pa trube o veleizdaji i kolapsu demokratije kao takve

 

 

[3opge]

kakve samo budalastine ti sebi dozvoljavas ne bi li odbranio svog ljubimca, racunam da je "nebitan prekrsaj protokola" to sto je dokazano ucenjivao i podmicivao naokolo da se prekroje rezultati izbora.

 

 

[ObiW]

Nebitan državni udar.

[dragance]

Nije uspeo, pa je zato nebitan.

[x500]

Za drzavni udar, tj pokusaj, se ide u zatvor. Tako je barem u normalnim zemljama.

Da su Trampa sudili 2021, dok je sve bilo sveze to bi bila normalna stvar. Ovako, cekala se izborna godina i kada postoji opasnost da mozda i pobedi, onda se sud koristi u politicke svrhe - sifra "619".

 

Tragedija je da u SAD 2 vodeca kandidata imaju preko 150 godina i  oba su najobicniji gmazovi i ljigavci. Ako je to najbolje sto SAD ima da ponudi onda nesto stvarno debelo nije uredu :(