Grčka - enormni dug, protesti oko mera štednje

[MancMellow]

evo je

http://graphics.wsj.com/greece-debt-timeline/

 

znaci ova godina je najproblematicnija

[vememah]

#ExplainNoToTsipras

 

A wave of criticism on social media has emerged from users of Twitter who are upset with the proposal Greece submitted to European leaders on Thursday.

 

Sharing their dismay at what some see as a capitulation by Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras of Greece with the hashtag #ExplainNoToTspiras, many are seeing the government’s plan as a betrayal of Sunday’s resounding rejection of further austerity.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/live/greek-debt-crisis-live-updates/explainnototsipras/?smid=tw-nytimesworld

 

Yolo je tražio Lafontena - evo ga u Špigelu: traži ukidanje evra i povratak na nacionalne valute.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/oskar-lafontaine-fordert-ende-des-euro-a-1043084.html

Edited July 11, 2015 by vememah

[vememah]

Noćašnji uzdržani:

 

But in an ominous sign for the stability of the government, 10 members on the ruling benches abstained or voted against the measures and another seven were absent, leaving Tsipras short of the 151 seats needed for a majority of his own.

 

Prominent leftwingers in his Syriza party signaled before the vote that they could not support the mix of tax hikes and spending cuts proposed by Tsipras, following the rejection of similar austerity measures by voters in Sunday's referendum.

 

Energy Minister Panagiotis Lafazanis, Deputy Labour Minister Dimitris Stratoulis as well as the speaker of parliament, Zoe Constantopoulou, all called "Present", in effect abstaining from the vote and withholding their support from the government.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/11/us-eurozone-greece-idUSKBN0P40EO20150711

 

Procene prolaska paketa na Evrogrupi različite:

 

Rojters:
 

One euro zone source, who has been skeptical of the leftist government’s commitment to a new reform program, said it was now “100 percent certain” the ministers would agree to launch negotiations. In the meantime, they will also consider short-term aid to tide Athens over until the three-year loan deal that Tsipras requested has been agreed and funds can be disbursed.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/11/us-eurozone-greece-institutions-positive-iduskcn0pk2kz20150711

 

 

AFP:
 

The [EU] source, who asked not to be named, said the creditor's assessment of the Greek plan would now go to the Eurogroup of 19 eurozone finance ministers who meet Saturday but it stood only a "50-50" chance of approval due to opposition by hardliners such as Germany who oppose any debt relief for Athens.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/creditors-positive-evaluation-greek-debt-proposals-eu-source-213927246.html

 

Edited July 11, 2015 by vememah

[vememah]

Možda je generalna ocena pozitivna, ali će Grci morati još da popuštaju.

 

The EU, IMF and ECB are “cautiously positive”, says the report but they want any new bailout programme to contain “structural benchmarks, milestones and quantitative benchmarks” for the future. And the reforms are not enough to meet primary surplus targets given the “significant deterioration in macroeconomic and financial conditions.”

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/11/greek-debt-crisis-eurozone-creditors-meet-to-decide-countrys-fate#block-55a0d816e4b05111b7559a03

 

KZŠ tek u 22, iako Evrogrupa počinje u 15. Guardian misli da to može biti dobar znak.

 

The Eurogroup has now listed the press conference following the meeting for 22.00 Brussels time (21.00 BST).

That seems to indicate a long meeting. A good sign?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/11/greek-debt-crisis-eurozone-creditors-meet-to-decide-countrys-fate#block-55a0d6ede4b05111b7559a02

 

FAZ piše da je sada Nemačka pod pritiskom jer je uvek govorila da visoko vrednuje mišljenje institucija i pominje Šojble mogao da postavi pitanje Ciprasove sposobnosti da sprovede mere s obzirom na to da noćas poslanici vladajuće koalicije nisu bili dovoljni za većinu.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/eurokrise/griechenland/kommt-der-grexit-nach-dem-referendum-live-blog-griechenland-13671349.html

 

Min.odb. Kamenos (ANEL), koji je pre neko veče kačio montažu Asteriksa i Obeliksa sa Ciprasovom i svojom glavom sinoć "teška srca" glasao za predlog rekavši da je kapitulacija bolja od građanskog rata.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/10/greek-crisis-deal-hopes-mps-vote-tsipras-live#block-55a04aebe4b05111b75599ac

Edited July 11, 2015 by vememah

[adam]

kad vec pomenusmo korupciju - independent jutros

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-debt-crisis-goldman-sachs-could-be-sued-for-helping-country-hide-debts-when-it-joined-euro-10381926.html

 

Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping country hide debts when it joined euro

 

Under Ms Loudiadis’s guidance, Goldman swapped debt issued by Greece in dollars and yen for euros which were priced at a historical exchange rate that made the debt look smaller than it actually was. The swaps reportedly made about 2 per cent of Greece’s debt disappear from its national accounts.

The size and structure of the deal enabled the bank to charge a far bigger fee than is usual in swap transactions, and Goldman persuaded Greece not to test the transaction with competitors to ensure it was getting good value for money.

[Anduril]

Dobri su ovi pojedinacni primeri korupcije u recimo Nemackoj i drugde ali su zato irelevantni za diskusiju o dominantnoj kulturi korupcije, klijentelizma, nesolidarnosti i neodgovornosti u Grckoj kao i kod nas.

 

Bez tog opsteg spoznanja i sa sakrivanjem iza

laznih PC zamena teza, kampanje i reforme da se promeni ta kultura nisu moguce.

 

U takvoj situaciji ostaje samo dalji pad, sledeca kriza i opsta nestabilnost zacinjena populizmom i mrznjom.

[Anduril]

...zaduživanju i privredjivanju Nemačke i Holandije pa me interesovalo da li je baš 100% odgovorno ili možda tu ima malkice one stare narodne: "Kud svi tu i mi, a kada stigne ceh već ćemo ga nekom uvaliti."

Malo su duze na forumu pa da ne znas da su ti crno-belo, 0-100% argumenti jalovi.

Uvek se govori o razmerama i dominantnom nacinu ponasanja.

I nisam pricao samo o privredjivanju nego i o solidarnosti - to je onaj deo koji kul populisticka

levica cesto zaboravlja da zapravo pocinje placanjem poreza i pravnom drzavom gde su

redovno najtanji.

Ova kriza u Grckoj je vec itekako kostala zivota i to kroz nesolidarnost i politicku sabotazu zdravstvenog sistema.

[Ravanelli]

kad vec pomenusmo korupciju - independent jutros

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greek-debt-crisis-goldman-sachs-could-be-sued-for-helping-country-hide-debts-when-it-joined-euro-10381926.html

 

Greek debt crisis: Goldman Sachs could be sued for helping country hide debts when it joined euro

Under Ms Loudiadis’s guidance, Goldman swapped debt issued by Greece in dollars and yen for euros which were priced at a historical exchange rate that made the debt look smaller than it actually was. The swaps reportedly made about 2 per cent of Greece’s debt disappear from its national accounts.

The size and structure of the deal enabled the bank to charge a far bigger fee than is usual in swap transactions, and Goldman persuaded Greece not to test the transaction with competitors to ensure it was getting good value for money.

GS su carevi. Oni zapravo stoje na pocetku price, ali realno mogu da ih povuku za tuki

To su sve morali da odobre grcki politicari koji su parama hranili glasove

[vememah]

Guardian prenosi da će treći bailout iznositi možda i 84 milijarde.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jul/11/greek-debt-crisis-eurozone-creditors-meet-to-decide-countrys-fate#block-55a0df91e4b07fc6a121f9f

Edited July 11, 2015 by vememah

[Tribun_Populi]

Dobri su ovi pojedinacni primeri korupcije u recimo Nemackoj i drugde ali su zato irelevantni za diskusiju o dominantnoj kulturi korupcije, klijentelizma, nesolidarnosti i neodgovornosti u Grckoj kao i kod nas.

 

Bez tog opsteg spoznanja i sa sakrivanjem iza

laznih PC zamena teza, kampanje i reforme da se promeni ta kultura nisu moguce.

 

U takvoj situaciji ostaje samo dalji pad, sledeca kriza i opsta nestabilnost zacinjena populizmom i mrznjom.

 

Evo recimo ja neam problem sa tim i opštom spoznajom i čime god već, niti se trudim da menjam teze, ali ti mi zvučiš kao drugi dnevnik u najbolje vreme, samo opposite side.

[morgana]

grcka ce dobit neki mali popust ako bude imala dobro prolazno vrijeme tj ispostuje parcijalne zadatke. nagadjam.

varufakis je slican sistem predlagao, nacelno govoreci, ali se druga strana nije slozila

mislim da se grckoj dreka isplatila. kapitulacija u odnosu na pocetnu poziciju nije sama po sebi bitna (a u tom slucaju mozemo reci i da je i druga strana kapitulirala) jer ne znamo je li bila ideal, cilj ili promisljena startna poziciha

Edited July 11, 2015 by morgana

[MancMellow]

biće "bitka" na evrogrupi

 

u principu, ako krenu u pregovore, sve je na stolu - kolicina austerity mera, dugovi i veličina bail-outa su međusobno povezane stvari.

[Hamlet Strašni]

Šta mislite da li grčka vlada priprema plan prelaska na drahmu. Ono, nacrte zakona, kupuje papir i sve to. Pa da ima u rezervi za 6 meseci ili tri godine. Da li je to moguće uraditi u tajnosti da.ne.podignu histeriju

 

Послато са SM-G900F уз помоћ Тапатока

[morgana]

a sto su se merkel i sojble neslozili?

[harper lee]

 

Dobri su ovi pojedinacni primeri korupcije u recimo Nemackoj i drugde ali su zato irelevantni za diskusiju o dominantnoj kulturi korupcije, klijentelizma, nesolidarnosti i neodgovornosti u Grckoj kao i kod nas.

 

Bez tog opsteg spoznanja i sa sakrivanjem iza

laznih PC zamena teza, kampanje i reforme da se promeni ta kultura nisu moguce.

 

U takvoj situaciji ostaje samo dalji pad, sledeca kriza i opsta nestabilnost zacinjena populizmom i mrznjom.

 

Tako je. Ali zasto bismo tu stali? Neka se jednom raskrinka i kultura lenjih crncuga u SAD nasledjena od njihovih ropskih pradjedova ali i kultura verskog terorizma u pakistanskih dosljaka u GB, alzirskih u Francuskoj i turskih u Nemackoj. Sve te lezilebovicke kulture odmah da se dovedu u red i poredak a ne tu neke zamene teza da se provlace. Rad oslobadja.

Edited July 11, 2015 by harper