Grčka - enormni dug, protesti oko mera štednje

[Muwan]

Cipras je izgleda prošao kroz desno-centralnog toplog zeca u Evropskom parlamentu: te lažov, te ekstremista, te slizao se sa Putinom... ne deluje baš kao predvečerje nekog dogovora.

[MancMellow]

Cipras je izgleda prošao kroz desno-centralnog toplog zeca u Evropskom parlamentu: te lažov, te ekstremista, te slizao se sa Putinom... ne deluje baš kao predvečerje nekog dogovora.

 

Odisaj™ 

[Prospero]

Ferhofštat bio oštar, ali u granicama teme:
 

Guy Verhofstadt, the leader of the liberal group in the European Parliament, warns that Europe “is sleepwalking towards a Grexit”.[/size]
He is laying into Tsipras for not coming up with detailed reforms.


I am even ready to come to Athens to discuss it with because I like such a challenge.


He outlines his plan for reform:

•  End the clientelist system in Greek politics i.e. party cronyism and rewarding loyalists with jobs.
• Downsize the public sector
• End privileges - privileges of the military, the orthodox Church, the Greek islands and the political parties.

There is never such a prime minister in Greece who has such a strong mandate as you.

You need to come forward with your reform pacakge, it is not a chicken or egg situation.

The choice is very simple, Verhoftstadt says, whether you want to be remembered as an accidental prime minister or a real revolutionary who modernised his country.

 

ali je Manfred Veber uklizao drop-kikom:

 

"Mr Tsipras, the extremists of Europe are applauding you. You are surrounding yourself with the wrong friends."

Weber to Tsipras: Don't lie to people, debt cut won't hurt bankers, it will hit nurses in Slovakia and public officials in Finland

Weber: Rather than holding referenda, other member states have got on with reforms and fiscal consolidation your rule has been catastrophic

'what if eurozone countries had own referendums so don't have to keep shovelling cash to Greece'

 

[Budja]

 Piketi, Saks i još trojica ekonomista pisali Merkelovoj - ostaćete upamćeni po ovonedeljnim odlukama.

 

Rodrik je vise od "trojice ekonomista". On je teska kategorija vise nego Saks.

[Budja]

To vec postaje dosadno.

 

Opet Putin.

 

Dajte, bre, vise, dosta, kako vam ne dosadi i nikoga to ni kod vase kuce ne zanima.

[Budja]

Nego, bas me zanima za Verhofstata: Da li misli da je Psiholabud 1 iskreni reformista ili ekstremista koji nagradjuje loyalistst with party jobs?

[MancMellow]

Nego, bas me zanima za Verhofstata: Da li misli da je Psiholabud 1 iskreni reformista ili ekstremista koji nagradjuje loyalistst with party jobs?

 

on je lojalista koji nagrađuje ekstremiste with party jobs

[reginald]

Evo Krugmana od jucer. Ispricavam se ako je vec bilo.

 

 

Debt Deflation in Greece

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However things play out from here — I find it hard to see a path other than Grexit — the troika’s program for Greece represents one of history’s epic policy failures. Even if you ignore the economic and human toll, it was an utter failure in terms of restoring solvency. In 2009, before the program, Greek debt was 126 percent of GDP. After five years, debt was … 177 percent of GDP.

 

How did that happen? Did the Greeks continue massive borrowing? As the chart shows, the answer is a definite no. Greek debt at the end of 2014 was only 6 percent higher than it was at the end of 2009. Admittedly, that number reflects a significant haircut on private debt along the way, but it was still nothing like the continued borrowing binge some imagine.

 

What happened instead was, of course, the collapse of GDP — itself largely the result of the austerity program.

 

What this suggests is that the troika program was simply infeasible, and would have been infeasible no matter how willing the Greeks had been to make sacrifices. The more they cut, the worse things got, because of Fisherian debt deflation.

 

I suppose you can argue that structural reforms might have delivered a boost in competitiveness, but the truth is that there’s very little evidence supporting the conventional faith in such reforms.

 

Some of my more conventional contacts like to insist that Greek austerity was unavoidable, and it’s true that one way or another Greece was going to have to achieve a primary surplus. If currency devaluation had been an option, this would have required much less austerity, because of the boost from easier monetary policy; but within the euro a lot of austerity was indeed something that had to happen. But the key point is that the austerity ended up being not just incredibly painful but completely futile, because it wasn’t accompanied by massive debt relief.

 

Is this kind of futility always the case? Not necessarily; if you try to do the arithmetic here, it becomes clear that a lot depends on the initial level of debt. If Greece had received major debt forgiveness, it would still have gone through hell, but with at least some hint of an eventual exit. Instead it was pushed into a cycle of ever-worse pain without hope.

[Аврам Гојић]

totalno mi je carsko potpuno ignorisanje cinjenice da je Cipras na vlasti tek 5 meseci. ponasaju se prema njemu kao da je tu 20 godina.

[Prospero]

Evo Krugmana od jucer. Ispricavam se ako je vec bilo.

 

 

If Greece had received major debt forgiveness

 

 

If only 

 

The first requirement was to finalize an agreement whereby all private holders of governmental bonds would accept a 50% haircut with yields reduced to 3.5%, thus facilitating a €100bn debt reduction for Greece.

...

Private investors accepted a slightly bigger haircut of 53.5% of the face value of Greek governmental bonds,^[10] the equivalent to an overall loss of around 75%.

 

[Muwan]

totalno mi je carsko potpuno ignorisanje cinjenice da je Cipras na vlasti tek 5 meseci. ponasaju se prema njemu kao da je tu 20 godina.

 

 

Upravo ono što je Manc pomenuo. Njihovi stari pajtosi Karamanlisi i Papandreui odjednom više nikakve veze sa bilo čim nemaju. Za sve je kriv ovaj što je u kancelariji manje od pola godine (pri čemu je prilično ubedljivo izabran u tu kancelariju al' ko te pita, važnije je poentirati sa ekstremistima i Putinom).

Edited July 8, 2015 by beowl

[Budja]

Koji kompleksasi.

 

 

Donald Tusk is playing the peacemaker in his final remarks to the European Parliament.

He says the source of the crisis in Greece is over-spending not the common currency.

He has a message for the Greek government

Seek help among your friends and not among your enemies, especially when they are unable to help you.

That’s you, Vladimir Putin.

[Prospero]

Btw, dajem negde 30% šanse da se dogovore do nedelje.

[Budja]

Upravo ono što je Manc pomenuo. Njihovi stari pajtosi Karamanlisi i Papandreui odjednom više nikakve veze sa bilo čim nemaju. Za sve je kriv ovaj što je u kancelariji manje od pola godine (pri čemu je prilično ubedljivo izabran u tu kancelariju al' ko te pita, važnije je poentirati sa ekstremistima i Putinom).

 

 

 

 New Democracy’s parliamentary spokesman, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, said this morning it was now urgent that political leaders coalesce immediately.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Budja

[Muwan]

Jesu li ovi normalni jbt, sad je dovoljan jedan telefonski razgovor sa Putinom (koji se pri tome javno ogradio od bilo kakvog mešanja u grčku priču) pa da se čitava komunikacija sa Evropom prešalta na taj kolosek?! Brate...