Grčka - enormni dug, protesti oko mera štednje

[vememah]

ali kako laze za 80% oprostenog duga...

 

Laže i za smanjenje penzija od samo 2%. Udeo penzija u BDP-u je trebalo da bude smanjen za 1%, a on je sad oko 17, što znaci da bi penzije bile smanjene za oko 6% i to samo pod nerealnom pretpostavkom da se BDP ne bi smanjio, dakle smanjile bi se još više u realnosti.

Edited July 8, 2015 by vememah

[Prospero]

Recap:
 

Greece given 5-day deadline to avoid bankruptcy
By Peter Spiegel, Anne-Sylvaine Chassany and Duncan Robinson in Brussels
 
 
Greece was given five days to reach a deal with its creditors or face bankruptcy after European leaders called an emergency summit on Sunday of all 28 EU members to decide the country’s fate.
 

 
In the strongest language since the start of the six-month stand-off between the far-left government in Athens and eurozone lenders, EU leaders said the No vote in the weekend referendum had severely constrained their ability to offer Greece aid and warned that any new bailout deal would include much tougher terms than those that could have been reached just two weeks ago.

“I am strongly against Grexit [Greek exit from the eurozone] but I can’t prevent it if the Greek government is not doing what we expected,” said Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president. “We have a Grexit scenario prepared in detail: we have a scenario as far as humanitarian aid is concerned.”

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, brushed aside suggestions that a short-term financing deal could be reached to take Athens through the summer before a two or three-year bailout agreement is agreed, insisting that the Greek government come forward with a full range of reforms that could cover a multiyear programme.

She warned that, with the Greek economy in a tailspin, Athens would have to suggest new ways to make up an even bigger fiscal gap than before Alexis Tsipras, the Greek prime minister, was forced to close his country’s banks last week. She gave Athens until Thursday to present those plans.

“I have to see to what extent the government is ready and willing to close this gap . . . through structural measures,” Ms Merkel said. “This is certainly now a challenge of a different nature than it was 10 days ago because over the past few days the economic situation of Greece has not improved, not at all.”

Mr Tsipras said he was ready to make “efforts” to reach an accord that “guarantees a way out of the crisis”.
The anti-austerity government in Athens scored a decisive victory as voters backed its call to reject a compromise with international creditors, raising serious doubts about the country’s ability to remain inside the eurozone

Greece has faced, and missed, repeated deadlines over the course of the stand-off but EU leaders made clear that a final decision on the country’s future would be made on Sunday.

Many eurozone officials expressed extreme pessimism that a deal could be reached — Ms Merkel said she was not “somebody who is very optimistic” — and many said they had become resigned to Greece exiting the eurozone.

“We still hope for a miracle,” one EU official said. “If the eurogroup [of eurozone finance ministers] says there is no basis for a deal, there is no basis. Then the discussion becomes the future of Greece.”

Mario Draghi, the European Central Bank president, briefed the summit on the situation for Greek banks, indicating that they could survive to the end of the week but not much longer. He also signalled that emergency central bank loans keeping the banks alive, which the ECB must approve, could not be extended beyond the weekend.

“Our inability to find agreement may lead to the bankruptcy of Greece and the insolvency of its banking system,” said Donald Tusk, the European Council president. “For sure, it will be most painful for the Greek people.”
 
The ECB is weighing whether to withdraw the emergency loans — it receives government-backed securities as collateral for the loans, which become worthless if Greece goes bankrupt — and has indicated that it will ask eurozone leaders to guarantee Greece’s solvency before cutting the aid.

Without the ECB-approved loans, Greek banks would collapse and a new currency would be needed to restart the financial sector. Asked whether Greece might need to introduce a parallel currency, Ms Merkel said the issue had been discussed by eurozone finance ministers.

The decision to invite all 28 countries to deal with the Greek crisis is unprecedented and a clear indication that leaders fear the country could be heading for economic chaos. Mr Tusk, who was responsible for summoning all 28 leaders to Brussels, said “humanitarian action” would be among the the topics to be discussed.

A small, French-led group of countries had tried to broker a compromise that would see short-term funds distributed to Greece quickly — which would include profits on Greek bonds held by the ECB — in exchange for immediate reform measures as a way to give leaders more time to negotiate an in-depth deal.

But Paris appeared to gain little traction and Ms Merkel said any short-term funding must be tied to a longer-term reform programme. “Let’s speak clearly: if there was no agreement, there would be the search for another option. France has a duty to envisage this option,” said François Hollande, the French president. “But let’s not think that letting Greece go will cost us nothing.”

Earlier on Tuesday, Greek negotiators had stunned eurozone finance ministers by arriving at their meeting without a revised economic reform proposal.

Despite the apparently abortive start to what had been billed as a last-ditch effort to salvage Greece’s place in the eurozone, officials said they had drawn some comfort from Euclid Tsakalotos, the new Greek finance minister, who made a strong presentation to his counterparts.

 

[Muwan]

Njima je kanda i dalje prioritet da u slučaju postizanja dogovora Cipras obavezno bude politički poražen.

[Indy]

Njima je kanda i dalje prioritet da u slučaju postizanja dogovora Cipras obavezno bude politički poražen.

 

Pa da, ovako zaista izgleda da im je vraćanje para u istoj ravni po važnosti sa time da Grčku učine bezbednom za globalni finansijski kapital ("short-term funding must be tied to a longer-term reform"). Bez obzira što se kod nekih (pa i ovde na forumu) svako protivljenje volji EU i IMF smatra nekim šešeljizmom, mislim da je sasvim legitimno da se bilo koji narod brani od diktata tih globalnih 1%.

[vememah]

Cipras za koji minut govori u EP:

 

Hrvatski strim:

http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/ebs/live.cfm?page=2&lang=hr

 

Engleski strimovi:

http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/ebs/live.cfm?page=2&lang=en

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-33411698

Edited July 8, 2015 by vememah

[Meazza]

Ljudi, molim vas izvinite, ovo nije uopste politicki korektno, ali plakao sam od smeha od ovog lika. 

 

 

Fuck you! We worked for the Turks 400 years, now we're on vacation. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by IndridCold

[Indy]

Ovih dana plivamo u antigrčkom sentimentu, posebno mi u anglo-zemljama. Čak je tangencijalno i ovaj nervozni Kyrgios (bez obzira što je samo polovično grčkog porekla) naleteo na kosku oko toga. Mada je u stvari dobro kada se prikiveni šovinizam obelodani.

[Indy]

...da Grčku učine bezbednom za globalni finansijski kapital ...

 

A evo i malo boljeg teksta o tome.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Indy

[beta]

e da nije bilo tih grka i talijana, australija bi i dalje jela gloginje

[vememah]

 Piketi, Saks i još trojica ekonomista pisali Merkelovoj - ostaćete upamćeni po ovonedeljnim odlukama.

Austerity Has Failed: An Open Letter From Thomas Piketty to Angela Merkel

 

Five leading economists warn the German chancellor, “History will remember you for your actions this week.”

 

The never-ending austerity that Europe is force-feeding the Greek people is simply not working. Now Greece has loudly said no more.

 

Global campaign group Avaaz organized this open letter to Angela Merkel on the back of a petition, signed by over half a million Europeans, demanding an end to the failed austerity program in Greece.

As most of the world knew it would, the financial demands made by Europe have crushed the Greek economy, led to mass unemployment, a collapse of the banking system, made the external debt crisis far worse, with the debt problem escalating to an unpayable 175 percent of GDP. The economy now lies broken with tax receipts nose-diving, output and employment depressed, and businesses starved of capital.

 

The humanitarian impact has been colossal—40 percent of children now live in poverty, infant mortality is sky-rocketing and youth unemployment is close to 50 percent. Corruption, tax evasion and bad accounting by previous Greek governments helped create the debt problem. The Greeks have complied with much of German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s call for austerity—cut salaries, cut government spending, slashed pensions, privatized and deregulated, and raised taxes. But in recent years the series of so-called adjustment programs inflicted on the likes of Greece has served only to make a Great Depression the likes of which have been unseen in Europe since 1929-1933. The medicine prescribed by the German Finance Ministry and Brussels has bled the patient, not cured the disease.

 

Together we urge Chancellor Merkel and the Troika to consider a course correction, to avoid further disaster and enable Greece to remain in the eurozone. Right now, the Greek government is being asked to put a gun to its head and pull the trigger. Sadly, the bullet will not only kill off Greece’s future in Europe. The collateral damage will kill the Eurozone as a beacon of hope, democracy and prosperity, and could lead to far-reaching economic consequences across the world.

“Right now, the Greek government is being asked to put a gun to its head and pull the trigger.”—Piketty, et al.

 

In the 1950s, Europe was founded on the forgiveness of past debts, notably Germany’s, which generated a massive contribution to post-war economic growth and peace. Today we need to restructure and reduce Greek debt, give the economy breathing room to recover, and allow Greece to pay off a reduced burden of debt over a long period of time.

Now is the time for a humane rethink of the punitive and failed program of austerity of recent years and to agree to a major reduction of Greece’s debts in conjunction with much needed reforms in Greece.

 

To Chancellor Merkel our message is clear; we urge you to take this vital action of leadership for Greece and Germany, and also for the world. History will remember you for your actions this week. We expect and count on you to provide the bold and generous steps towards Greece that will serve Europe for generations to come.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Heiner Flassbeck, former State Secretary in the German Federal Ministry of Finance

Thomas Piketty, Professor of Economics at the Paris School of Economics

Jeffrey D. Sachs, Professor of Sustainable Development, Professor of Health Policy and Management, and Director of the Earth Institute at Columbia University

Dani Rodrik, Ford Foundation Professor of International Political Economy, Harvard Kennedy School

Simon Wren-Lewis, Professor of Economic Policy, Blavatnik School of Government, University of Oxford

 

 

http://www.thenation.com/article/austerity-has-failed-an-open-letter-from-thomas-piketty-to-angela-merkel/

Edited July 8, 2015 by vememah

[MancMellow]

A evo i malo boljeg teksta o tome.

 

fora sa austerityjem je što je nelogičan i neracionalan, to je, da budem potpuno iskren, ono što je meni upalilo lampicu, a ne baš socijalna pravda, nejednakost i tako to - to jeste bitno, ali u racionalnoj kritici austerityja možda čak nije ključno. I to što ima potencijal da vodi sukobima država, što je u Evropi uvek na korak od tuče (da sad ne idem u obrazlaganje zašto (to mislim)). 

 

Dakle, ideja da će privreda koja se već nalazi u slump-u da "raste" uz sečenje prihoda i posla, i uz istovremeno podizanje taksi je i inače problematična, a ako se ujedno i ne može izvršiti spoljna devalvacija postaje prosto 1 "verovanje" da će uz povećanje poverenja i "stabilnosti" doći do oporavka. Lakše je dokazati da su povremeni poluuspesi takvog pristupa circumstantial, nego obrnuto. Znači, iracionalnost je u samoj osnovi, a ja to ne trpim kad je reč o parama. Plus, naravno, dug (koji je sve i izazvao). Okrivljavanje Grčke, i Syrize koja na vlasti 5-6 meseci da su krivci za najveću krizu u istoriji EEZ/EZ/EU mi već pomalo liči, oprostite, ali na okrivljavanje Srbije za WW1. Sure, mnoge gadne stvari su se dešavale u Grčkoj/Srbiji...al nemojte da se zajebavamo. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by MancMellow

[Prospero]

IMHO, osteriti ima za prvi cilj da izbalansira fiskus i smanji opterećenje rashoda koji su vodili (tj uveli) društva u zonu bankrota. U idejnom smislu osteriti je prethodnica (očekivanom/nadanom) rastu, tj. stvaranje osnove za rast nešto drugačiji od prethodnog iz bum/babl faze, a u izvedbi je zapravo samo kontrolisani pad ekonomije kako ne bi kljaknula baš skroz nakrivo™.

[Prospero]

Pa da, ovako zaista izgleda da im je vraćanje para u istoj ravni po važnosti sa time da Grčku učine bezbednom za globalni finansijski kapital ("short-term funding must be tied to a longer-term reform"). Bez obzira što se kod nekih (pa i ovde na forumu) svako protivljenje volji EU i IMF smatra nekim šešeljizmom, mislim da je sasvim legitimno da se bilo koji narod brani od diktata tih globalnih 1%.

 

Sem duga MMFu (27B€) Grčka duguje praktično sve Uniji, bilo ECBu bilo državama članicama (oko 150B€ iz EFSF fonda). Nema tu "globalnog" kapitala, niti će taj kapital skoro doći u Grčku.

[MancMellow]

IMHO, osteriti ima za prvi cilj da izbalansira fiskus i smanji opterećenje rashoda koji su vodili (tj uveli) društva u zonu bankrota. U idejnom smislu osteriti je prethodnica (očekivanom/nadanom) rastu, tj. stvaranje osnove za rast nešto drugačiji od prethodnog iz bum/babl faze, a u izvedbi je zapravo samo kontrolisani pad ekonomije kako ne bi kljaknula baš skroz nakrivo™.

 

Pravi haos će tek nastati kad se završi "the age of oil", iskreno, to mi se ni ne zamišlja...

[Prospero]

Pusti to :D

 

 

 

 

Graeci zatražili formalno 3. bejlaut:

 

 

BREAKING: A spokesperson for the European Stability Mechanism confirms to POLITICO that it “has received the Greek request” for stability support.

 

Greece initiated its request for a third bailout from its European partners Wednesday by formally requesting assistance from the bailout fund.

Athens made its request via Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who currently chairs the Eurogroup of finance ministers and the board of governors of the ESM.