Grčka - enormni dug, protesti oko mera štednje

[MancMellow]

ne, ali dao je i link, iz koga se jasno vidi da nema govora da je 80% duga oprosteno, ali to na twitteru ionako niko ne cita...

[MancMellow]

 

Donald Tusk then gives a stark warning that there are just five days to avoid the worst-case scenario and save Greece from bankruptcy.

The European Council president says:

All sides of the negotiations share responsibility for the current status quo. That is why today I called leaders to try to find a consensus which will be our common success with no losers or winners.

If that doesn’t happen, it will means the end of the negotiations with all the possible consequences including the worst case scenario where all of us will lose.

Our inability to find agreement may lead to the bankruptcy of Greece and the insolvency of its banking system. And for sure, it will be most painful for the Greek people.

I have no doubt that this will affect all of Europe, also in the geo-political sense.

If someone has any illusion that it will not be so, they are naive.

The stark reality is that only have five days to find the ultimate agreement.

Until now I have avoided talking about deadlines, but tonight I have to say it loud and clear - the final deadline ends this week. All of us are responsible for the crisis, and all of us have a responsibility to resolve it.

[svashtabezneshto]

Ima veze sa tih njegovih 80%, nisam videla koji je link postavio, ali naiđoh na ovaj dijagram.

Ima li neko objašnjenje? Kako je iz ovoga izvukao 80%?

Edited July 7, 2015 by svashtabezneshto

[Indy]

 a ne sumnjam da ih je vise takvih nego drugacijih 

Uvek moraš da sumnjaš, skepticizam je zdrav.

[hazard]

 

 

Donald Tusk then gives a stark warning that there are just five days to avoid the worst-case scenario and save Greece from bankruptcy.

The European Council president says:

All sides of the negotiations share responsibility for the current status quo

. That is why today I called leaders to try to find a consensus which will be our common success with no losers or winners.

If that doesn’t happen, it will means the end of the negotiations with all the possible consequences including the worst case scenario where all of us will lose.

Our inability to find agreement may lead to the bankruptcy of Greece and the insolvency of its banking system. And for sure, it will be most painful for the Greek people.

I have no doubt that this will affect all of Europe, also in the geo-political sense.

If someone has any illusion that it will not be so, they are naive.

The stark reality is that only have five days to find the ultimate agreement.

Until now I have avoided talking about deadlines, but tonight I have to say it loud and clear - the final deadline ends this week. All of us are responsible for the crisis, and all of us have a responsibility to resolve it.

 

 

Znaci i njega je zvao Obama

[paculla]

pa twitter, oni su tamo u stanju stalne borbene gotovosti kako da budu prvi, najpametniji, najduhovitiji. plus je ovaj gastarbajter, uspesan, diplome, phd, katedre, kamijoni avijoni,... 

 

gastarbajterska tuga pregolema, treba se biti veci svabo od legendarne svapske domacice, ne zbog nemacke, no zbog svojih kod kuce, da vide da si se dobro snasao. 

[MancMellow]

Ima veze sa tih njegovih 80%, nisam videla koji je link postavio, ali naiđoh na ovaj dijagram.

Ima li neko objašnjenje? Kako je iz ovoga izvukao 80%?

 

skinuto je 59-60% duga i to private sector involvement-a,  od toga su najveci deo podnele grcke banke, mnogo vise od onih iz drugih EZ zemalja

 

 

According to the best discussion of PSI I’ve found, by Jeromin Zettelmeyer, Christoph Trebesch, and Mitu Gulati, the debt exchange waslarge, affecting €199B of debt at face-value, with a present value of roughly €130B at the time of the exchange (using a discount rate of 15.3%, see Table 4, p. 23). The authors estimate the total debt relief to Greece from the operation to be €98B. Of that €98B, €15.8B are accounted for by subsidies embedded in two below-market loans from official lenders: €8.2B in underpriced borrowing to buy notes from the EFSF (to be distributed as a “sweetener” to encourage creditors to make the exchange), and €7.6B in the form of an underpriced loan to partially recapitalize Greece’s banks (which would be impaired following their own participation in the write-down). That left a subsidy of €98B – €15.8B = €82.2B which had to have been provided by surrendering €130B in debt, for an average write down of 63.2%.

 

If we assume that the Guardian/UBS exposures linked above are valued at comparable discount rates, we can compute the distribution of the incidence of this cost-to-debt-holders / subsidy-to-Greece. According to that data, Greek banks would have accounted for 45.3% of the €130B debt exchanged, non-Greek banks would have accounted for 25.3%, and unknown non-European-bank holders would account for an additional 29.4%. In absolute € terms, then, Greek banks representing €58.9B of exposure would have transfered €37.3B; non-Greek banks representing €32.9B of exposure would have transfered €20.8B; and unknown non-European-bank holders representing €38.2B of exposure would have transfered €24.2B.

 

http://www.interfluidity.com/v2/date/2015/07

 

njegov izvor

 

PDF: http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5343&context=faculty_scholarship

 

A ono sto mi se cini da je Karapandza uradio je da je uzeo ukupni face-value celog affected duga i stavio ga u odnos sa present value ukuonog trenutnog duga, mada ko zna...

[MancMellow]

Znaci i njega je zvao Obama

 

Cenim da ako su se Ameri direktno umesali (a nekako izgleda da jesu), to moze da izazove solidnu politicku krizu u Nemackoj. No, sustinski, Tusk jeste u pravu, ovde stvarno nema nevinih.

[svashtabezneshto]

Hvala.

[Anonymous]

Utiče, naravno, ali strateški Evropa luta, a i iz onog teksta je očigledno da najjača zemlja EU u ovom trenutku pre svega razmišlja o interesima svoje ekonomije. Ništa sporno, da je i na polzu ostalih, ali nije, nego samo na korist otprilike polovine. Neće to dobro da završi ako se nastavi, mmw. Ne može u Evropi u XXI veku da prođe i surovi kapitalizam i fiscal tightening. Nema šanse, pućiće pre ili kasnije. Ko je bio u pravu, a ko u krivu tad neće biti puno bitno. 

 

+1

 

Federalizacija (negde je Mau na ovom topiku to bila napisala), ili raspad, sve ostalo je čista agonija. Naravno, federalizacija se neće desiti (a mogla je), prognoziram 19-ti vek za Evropu, budale slepačke.

[MancMellow]

+1

 

Federalizacija (negde je Mau na ovom topiku to bila napisala), ili raspad, sve ostalo je čista agonija. Naravno, federalizacija se neće desiti (a mogla je), prognoziram 19-ti vek za Evropu, budale slepačke.

 

pa jbg, svi oni imaju glasace kod kuce. Kad krenu da se smanjuju pare krece kukanje. Fail politickih elita je taj sto umesto sto povladjuje prirodnom "gde su nasi novci" instinktu elektorata, ne govore sta sledi posle - ono vidjeno sto puta. Izbacis Grcku i, u najboljem scenariju, rekonstruises Evrozonu i osnazis je. To je Evropa u dve brzine ozvanicena. Zapadni Balkan ostavis izvan (cak mozda, de facto, i devastiranu Grcku), a UK izglasa exit. Posle toga priroda uglavnom sve odradi sama. 

[Kreator]

malo humora :)

 

http://www.njuz.net/cipras-objavio-fejsbuk-status-povodom-krize-u-grckoj/

[Anonymous]

^^

 

Što otvara stare evropske 'ideje'. Slepci (i bogatiji i siromašniji članovi EU) na naše oči sjebavaju osnovnu ideju ujedinjavanja, koju je postavila bolja generacija od naše.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Anonymous

[MancMellow]

^^

 

Što otvara stare evropske 'ideje'. Slepci (i bogatiji i siromašniji članovi EU) na naše oči sjebavaju osnovnu ideju ujedinjavanja, koju je postavila bolja generacija od naše.

 

Pa dobro, moja generacija je proevropska (Renzi, Cipras)  -_-

[MancMellow]

malo humora :)

 

http://www.njuz.net/cipras-objavio-fejsbuk-status-povodom-krize-u-grckoj/

 

MFM