Grčka - enormni dug, protesti oko mera štednje

[MancMellow]

Renzi

 

 

"We have been urging for months to talk not only about austerity and balance sheets but about growth, infrastructure, common policies on migration, innovation, the environment," he wrote on his Facebook page

"Tomorrow's meetings should point to a definitive way to resolve this emergency," Renzi said, referring to a meeting on Tuesday of EU finance ministers and a summit of Eurogroup leaders in Brussels.

But he urged that negotiations not forget the larger "more fascinating and complex" picture of building Europe, considering "policies and not just parameters, values and not just numbers.

"If we remain immobile, prisoners to regulation and bureaucracy, Europe is finished," he said. "To build a different Europe will not be easy, after what has happened these past years. But it is the right time to try to do it, all together."

Renzi, who spoke for two hours early on Monday with his Economy Minister Pier Carlo Padoan, has since coming to power in February 2014 advocated policies promoting growth in Europe and scrapping draconian austerity measures.

Italy's secretary of state for European affairs, Sandro Gozi, for his part urged an accord that would keep Greece in the eurozone.

"I don't think it is in anyone's interest to make Greece leave the monetary union," he said on Italian television.

 

http://www.thelocal.it/20150706/renzi-calls-for-greece-talks-to-focus-on-growth

 

Guardian

 

 

 

Germany and France scrambled to avoid a major split over Greece on Monday evening as the eurozone delivered a damning verdict on Alexis Tsipras’s landslide referendum victory on Sunday and Angela Merkel demanded that the Greek prime minister put down new proposals to break the deadlock.

 

Podrška Italije same ne vredi ništa (jbg), ali ako dobiju neki leeway od Francuske i ovu podrži Italija i možda još par zemalja, moraju toga da se uhvate i ne puštaju. To im je, bukvalno, jedina nada da će se vratiti kući još uvek u evru, a sa nekakvim obrazom u odnosu na referendum. 

 

Inače - grexit. I to disorderly. A to je teško sranje, jer sa njim još gori austerity sledi šta god da su izglasali. Tj, ne sledi austerity, nego pravi pravcati kolaps u kome je veliko pitanje da li će Syriza uopšte moći da zadrži vlast, čak je pitanje i opstanka demokratije i institucija sistema. Podigli su na najveći nivo, svaka čast, to su i hteli, ali to je to. 

 

Sami se neće iskobeljati iz katastrofe disorderly grexita. Oni zaista jesu zemlja kojoj treba pomoć. Heck, njihova administracija je po svemu sudeći razjebanija i od srpske. Ta pomoć ne sme da dođe samo u vidu mera koje realno jedino i isključivo guše privredu, ali pomoć im treba. Što se tiče čisto ideološke borbe protiv austerityja...ima dana za megdana, oni sami tu bitku sigurno neće dobiti, a ako su hteli da rasplamsaju kontinentalnu debatu o tome, ne da su uspeli, nego nema dalje. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by MancMellow

[vememah]

Minhau o sićušnim grčkim šansama sutra i alternativnim, takođe malo izglednim varijantama da se grčke banke dovedu u red:

 

 

 

A stealthy route to Grexit

Wolfgang Münchau

In Berlin, the belief is hardening that no deal can be reached with a government led by Tsipras

I admire Alexis Tsipras’s sense of humour. By replacing Yanis Varoufakis as finance minister with Euclid Tsakalotos, the Greek prime minister swapped a supposedly Marxist economist trained at the University of Essex for a supposedly Marxist economist trained at the University of Oxford. Surprisingly, a few people see this as a reason to be optimistic.

What we know about Mr Tsakalotos is that he is a tough negotiator who believes in debt relief just as his predecessor did. So does Mr Tsipras himself. The fundamental obstacle to a deal thus remains unresolved: Greece continues to say No to the old agreement, and Germany says No to everything else. The Germans clearly did not replace their finance minister yesterday. On the contrary, Berlin yesterday reaffirmed its position that, at present, there is no basis for a deal.

A new agreement between Greece and its creditors would require a series of political shifts to happen simultaneously over the next few days. For starters, the Greeks would need to accept an austerity programme and structural reforms very similar to the one they rejected in the referendum. And the Germans would need to accept debt relief. On the former, agreement may be easier now Mr Varoufakis is gone. When you compare the final offer of the creditors, now rejected by the Greek electorate, with Athens’ last offer, you would struggle to spot the actual differences. If everyone wanted a deal, I am sure an agreement could be fudged, and sold at home.

The trouble is I am no longer sure whether all the creditors — specifically Germany — still want a deal. In Berlin, the belief is hardening in official circles that no deal can be reached with a government led by Mr Tsipras. Some of the most aggressive comments come from the leadership of the SPD, Angela Merkel’s junior coalition partner, until recently a moderating influence in German politics. They are now a leading pro-Grexit force because they see an opportunity to mark out a populist political territory as their own.

As someone who follows the German debate in some detail, I see a lot of people genuinely looking forward to Grexit, oblivious to €87bn in estimated losses for Germany alone. The consensus in Berlin was that the Greeks have decided to commit economic suicide. When Mr Tsipras came back yesterday with an offer for new talks, Ms Merkel accepted that she will listen politely to him at Tuesday evening’s eurozone summit. The talk in Berlin, however, is not about compromise, but about how to organise post-Grexit humanitarian relief. The idea that Greece would remain in the euro is considered somewhat quaint.

The Greek strategy is to split the creditors. This is probably the best they can do, but it is not all that great, since an agreement requires unanimity. But at least it would end Greece’s political isolation. Paris and Rome seem more willing than Berlin to re-enter negotiations.

If a big package is not feasible, an alternative might be an agreement to restructure the Greek banking system only, and do nothing else. Unfortunately, the only institution with the financial capacity to do such a deal is the same European Stability Mechanism that would administer an ordinary loan programme. Any ESM deal, big or small, requires unanimous approval by its members, and I cannot see Germany approving a bank-only deal while the Greek government keeps on defaulting on its official creditors.

Another option to consider is a multilateral bank-only deal. Italy and France could lead a coalition of the willing to recapitalise the Greek banking system to the point that it has enough funds to allow the Greek government to lift the capital controls. At that point the Greeks could start defaulting on their official creditors.

I have no evidence that President François Hollande and Matteo Renzi, the French and Italian leaders, are willing to take such a huge political and financial risk. Neither of them wants a political feud with Germany.

My overall conclusion is that if Grexit were to happen, it would happen by stealth. The Tsipras administration one day introduces a euro-denominated liquidity instrument. If the banking system deteriorates further, the government will have to print so many of the new IOUs that they would change hands on the grey market for a discount. Eventually, the central bank will control the supply of that shadow currency. It may never become legal tender, but if there are not enough euros in circulation, it will become Greece’s de facto currency.

In other words, Grexit is now the default position. It is what will happen if Tuesday evening’s summit does not somehow break the current, agonising impasse.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/85bc1c90-23c0-11e5-9c4e-a775d2b173ca.html

 

 

[Eraserhead]

http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-referendum-result-and-the-meaning-of-debt-2015-7

 

Uglavnom se ne slazem sa poentom teksta ali mislim da je vredan za citanje.

[vememah]

Nemački EU-komesar Ginter Etinger (CDU) je izrazio skepsu u vezi sa daljnjim ostankom Grčke u Evrozoni. "Insolventna zemlja koja uvodi paralelnu valutu ne spada u monetarnu uniju", izjavio je Etinger Bildu. "Sada imamo bizarnu situaciju da je Grčka članica Evrozone, ali da gotovo više nema evre." Grčka vlada će uskoro verovatno morati da plaća račune dužničkim papirima.

 

EU-komesar je izrazio sumnju u uspeh daljih pregovora. "Referendum je možda mobilisao građane, ali on ništa ne menja po pitanju činjenice da se Grčka nalazi neposredno pred bankrotom." Ako vlada nastavi da odbija reforme, razgovori nemaju nikakvog smisla.

 

Evropljani sada moraju da spreče "nastanak problema sa lekovima, namirnicama ili naftom i gasom", rekao je Etinger. Za to se mogu iskoristiti sredstva iz budžeta EU koja su predviđena za prirodne katastrofe.

 

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/eurokrise/griechenland/kommt-der-grexit-nach-dem-referendum-live-blog-griechenland-13671349.html

[Muwan]

http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-referendum-result-and-the-meaning-of-debt-2015-7

Uglavnom se ne slazem sa poentom teksta ali mislim da je vredan za citanje.

Mislim da ima dobru poentu u vezi neplaćanja poreza.

 

A ni poenta u vezi Goldmana nije loša: http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman-sachs-helped-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html

[vememah]

Edited July 7, 2015 by vememah

[Sammael]

Očekivano.

[vememah]

[Muwan]

Sreća pa se 15 od tih 16 zemalja za nešto pita u EU...

 

I još veća sreća da se čitaoci Parisiena pitaju za nešto u EU...

 

 

Znam da je uzalud ali zarad kvaliteta ovog topika ću još jednom ponoviti apel da isti malo manje zatrpavamo tvitovima čija je jedina svrha da sakupe što više retvitova.

[boshoku]

ali zakintos "ostrvo slepih", je priceless

[hazard]

Da dodam: smorili ste s tvitovima tapatalk ih ne ucitava i onda moram copy-paste na tabletu smara

[vememah]

OK, nema više tvitova.

[Muwan]

Nisu tvitovi loši sami po sebi, neke vredi preneti. Ali kada ti dođe Katimerini sa nekom tajkunskom senzacijom (mislim, na koju su to foru oni mogli da provere i verifikuju stav 16 evropskih vlada po pitanju grexita pa da izlaze sa takvim stanovištima?) i onda neki aktivista™ to dodatno pojednostavi i uprosti kako bi stalo u jedan senzacionalni tvit, to je već nešto od čega ovaj topik ne može da ima bilo kakve koristi.

[Pontijak]

ali zakintos "ostrvo slepih", je priceless

 

eh. da sam u zivotu bio recimo pontiakis i ziveo u atini sada bih bio godinama u penziji, imao bih secanje na lepe godine rada, bonuse kada dolazim na vreme na posao, 13. i 14. platu, ne bih nikada platio porez na stan i ostale mediteranske radosti i naravno besneo bih ispred bankomata iz kojeg mogu da izvucem samo 50 evra dnevno i psovao bih nemce i bankare i sve zle severnjake

Edited July 7, 2015 by Pontijak

[Prospero]

obavezno štivo za ovu krizu 

 

+1

 

 

For Tsipras, politics is a magic wand that can make everything disappear: mountains of debt, reform requirements and the rule that prohibits the European Central Bank (ECB) from keeping countries liquid by printing money. It is hard to say what Syriza actually wants. The party is as much a home to former Maoists as it is to disillusioned social democrats. Some dream of a revolution, while others would be satisfied with debt forgiveness. But one thing is clear: Tsipras' radicalism lies in his faith in the power of the decision. If he doesn't accept rules, he demands that they be dissolved. This is the logic of Syriza.

Merkel's real failure is that she did not decisively stand up to his way of thinking. First, she hid behind the troika, because she didn't want to be the one to deliver the bitter truths to the Greek government. She followed the McKinsey principle.

Then, when Tsipras' demands became more and more urgent, she bowed to his logic. She adopted the motto: "Where there's a will, there's a way." In Germany, these words were interpreted as a sign of goodwill -- of the desire to keep Greece in the euro zone. But Tsipras interpreted them completely differently: as a challenge to bring matters to a head.

 

+1 :D