Grčka - enormni dug, protesti oko mera štednje

[vememah]

Gradonačelnik Atine gostovao na Bloombergu nakon što je centralna vlast dekretom prebacila sve rezerve lokalnih samouprava sebi (zbog "izuzetno hitnih i nepredviđenih potreba"), što nije prošlo bez otpora. On tvrdi da je 80% Grka protiv izlaska iz Evrozone.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2015-04-24/large-majority-of-greeks-oppose-euro-exit-athens-mayor

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-20/greek-mayors-to-protest-government-decision-to-seize-their-cash

[MancMellow]

Pa znamo to. Zato ih ovoliko i pritiskaju. Krajnji cilj je pad popularnosti i, u konacnici, odlazak sa vlasti.

[vememah]

Ništa čudno, samo im treba još takvih vlasti po većim državama koje bi da prave dvocifrene budžetske deficite, kao da Evrozona nije već dovoljno nestabilna.

 

The two sides are no closer to an agreement than when the Greek government took office almost three months ago. “Nothing, literally nothing has been achieved,” says an official. In fact, it is worse than that: so far, the bulk of Athens’s reform plans would actually cost money or reduce government revenues, according to eurozone officials.

 

They say that when you add up all the government’s proposals, the budget surplus required under the current program turns into a 10-15% deficit while debt soars far above the 120% of GDP targeted for 2022. There is no way that the eurozone—let alone the IMF—could disburse funds on the basis of such fantastical numbers.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/europe-braces-for-messy-greek-endgame-1429474965

 

Sudeći po Dragijevim rečima, Grci i dalje ne nude ništa konkretno:

 

There can't be an agreement if people don't have an adequate process to asses, quantify policy measures.

 

http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/video/player.cfm?ref=I102285&sitelang=en&videolang=en (od 4:38)

Inače, grčki sajt Makropolis objavio je šemu mogućih scenarija (nažalost, prateći članak je iza paywalla):

 

[MancMellow]

Ništa čudno, samo im treba još takvih vlasti po većim državama koje bi da prave dvocifrene budžetske deficite

 

Kad je Syriza napravila dvocifren budzetski deficit?

[Аврам Гојић]

Ništa čudno, samo im treba još takvih vlasti po većim državama koje bi da prave dvocifrene budžetske deficite, kao da Evrozona nije već dovoljno nestabilna.

 

 

Da, zato hajde da vratimo one koji nikako nisu pravili dvocifreni budzetski deficit.

 

[Dr Arslanagić]

Da, zato hajde da vratimo one koji nikako nisu pravili dvocifreni budzetski deficit.

 

 

Пуковници били у плусу.

[Аврам Гојић]

Пуковници били у плусу.

 

Čvrsta ruka, nema tu...

[vememah]

Kad je Syriza napravila dvocifren budzetski deficit?

 

Nije napravila, napravila bi da su kreditori dovoljno ludi da im daju pare za vraćanje dugova dok oni prave zemlju Dembeliju kakvu ni mnogo uspešnije zemlje sebi ne mogu da priušte u Grčkoj.

 

Da, zato hajde da vratimo one koji nikako nisu pravili dvocifreni budzetski deficit.

 

Pa sad, ako grčko društvo nije u stanju da iznedri neku vlast koja nije malčice više u dodiru s realnošću umesto ovih što sanjaju o izlasku iz Natoa, onda za bolje i nisu - failed state, isto kao i Srbija.

[Аврам Гојић]

Aha, dakle napravila bi, dobro je da si precizirao, inače bi neko mogao da pomisli da pričaš napamet.

Mogao bi "precizirati" i ovo za NATO pošto Siriza nikada nije izrekla taj stav, ako me računamo jedan jedini istup njenog poslanika, koga je Cipras odmah ućutkao.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Грешни Василије

[MancMellow]

Nije napravila, napravila bi da su kreditori dovoljno ludi da im daju pare za vraćanje dugova dok oni prave zemlju Dembeliju kakvu ni mnogo uspešnije zemlje sebi ne mogu da priušte u Grčkoj.

 

To je pak tvoje misljenje, to nije, ili bar jos uvek nije, 1 fakt.

[Dr Arslanagić]

Čvrsta ruka, nema tu...

 

Добро, мало су фулали око Кипра, али Боже мој...

[vememah]

To je pak tvoje misljenje, to nije, ili bar jos uvek nije, 1 fakt.

 

Da, moje mišljenje nastalo na osnovu citata izvora WSJ-a uključenog u pregovore s Grcima.

 

U svakom slučaju, jedina razlika koju vidim između Sirizinih obećanja iz programa u 40 tačaka i Grobarevog hleba za 3 dinara jeste u tome da su ovi iz Sirize toliko ludi da zaista misle da mogu da ih ostvare.

 

Aha, dakle napravila bi, dobro je da si precizirao, inače bi neko mogao da pomisli da pričaš napamet.

 

Sorry, mislio sam da je ovo dovoljno jasan srpski...

 

samo im treba još takvih vlasti po većim državama koje bi da prave dvocifrene budžetske deficite

 

...a ovo dovoljno jasan engleski...

 

The two sides are no closer to an agreement than when the Greek government took office almost three months ago. “Nothing, literally nothing has been achieved,” says an official. In fact, it is worse than that: so far, the bulk of Athens’s reform plans would actually cost money or reduce government revenues, according to eurozone officials.

 

They say that when you add up all the government’s proposals, the budget surplus required under the current program turns into a 10-15% deficit while debt soars far above the 120% of GDP targeted for 2022. There is no way that the eurozone—let alone the IMF—could disburse funds on the basis of such fantastical numbers.

 

...ali sam se očigledno prevario.

 

Mogao bi "precizirati" i ovo za NATO pošto Siriza nikada nije izrekla taj stav, ako me računamo jedan jedini istup njenog poslanika, koga je Cipras odmah ućutkao.

 

I te kako jeste, još 2012, u tački 40 svog programa. O tome se diskutovalo i ovde na temi. Da ne bude neke zabune, CIpras je postao predsednik Sirize još 2008. godine.

 

 

 

1. Audit of the public debt and renegotiation of interest due and suspension of payments until the economy has revived and growth and employment return.

 

2. Demand the European Union to change the role of the European Central Bank so that it finances states and programs of public investment.

 

3. Raise income tax to 75% for all incomes over 500,000 euros.

 

4. Change the election laws to a proportional system.

 

5. Increase taxes on big companies to that of the European average.

 

6. Adoption of a tax on financial transactions and a special tax on luxury goods.

 

7. Prohibition of speculative financial derivatives.

 

8. Abolition of financial privileges for the Church and shipbuilding industry.

 

9. Combat the banks' secret [measures] and the flight of capital abroad.

 

10. Cut drastically military expenditures.

 

11. Raise minimum salary to the pre-cut level, 750 euros per month.

 

12. Use buildings of the government, banks and the Church for the homeless.

 

13. Open dining rooms in public schools to offer free breakfast and lunch to children.

 

14. Free health benefits to the unemployed, homeless and those with low salaries.

 

15. Subvention up to 30% of mortgage payments for poor families who cannot meet payments.

 

16. Increase of subsidies for the unemployed. Increase social protection for one-parent families, the aged, disabled, and families with no income.

 

17. Fiscal reductions for goods of primary necessity.

 

18. Nationalisation of banks.

 

19. Nationalisation of ex-public (service & utilities) companies in strategic sectors for the growth of the country (railroads, airports, mail, water).

 

20. Preference for renewable energy and defence of the environment.

 

21. Equal salaries for men and women.

 

22. Limitation of precarious hiring and support for contracts for indeterminate time.

 

23. Extension of the protection of labour and salaries of part-time workers.

 

24. Recovery of collective (labour) contracts.

 

25. Increase inspections of labour and requirements for companies making bids for public contracts.

 

26. Constitutional reforms to guarantee separation of church and state and protection of the right to education, health care and the environment.

 

27. Referendums on treaties and other accords with Europe.

 

28. Abolition of privileges for parliamentary deputies. Removal of special juridical protection for ministers and permission for the courts to proceed against members of the government.

 

29. Demilitarisation of the Coast Guard and anti-insurrectional special troops. Prohibition for police to wear masks or use fire arms during demonstrations. Change training courses for police so as to underline social themes such as immigration, drugs and social factors.

 

30. Guarantee human rights in immigrant detention centres.

 

31. Facilitate the reunion of immigrant families.

 

32. Depenalisation of consumption of drugs in favor of battle against drug traffic. Increase funding for drug rehab centres.

 

33. Regulate the right of conscientious objection in draft laws.

 

34. Increase funding for public health up to the average European level.(The European average is 6% of GDP; in Greece 3%.)

 

35. Elimination of payments by citizens for national health services.

 

36. Nationalisation of private hospitals. Elimination of private participation in the national health system.

 

37. Withdrawal of Greek troops from Afghanistan and the Balkans. No Greek soldiers beyond our own borders.

 

38. Abolition of military cooperation with Israel. Support for creation of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.

 

39. Negotiation of a stable accord with Turkey.

 

40. Closure of all foreign bases in Greece and withdrawal from NATO.

 

 

http://links.org.au/node/2888

Edited April 24, 2015 by vememah

[MancMellow]

 

Da, moje mišljenje nastalo na osnovu citata izvora WSJ-a uključenog u pregovore s Grcima.

 

 

to je ovo?

 

 

 

They say that when you add up all the government’s proposals, the budget surplus required under the current program turns into a 10-15% deficit while debt soars far above the 120% of GDP targeted for 2022. 

 

Zao mi je, to je misljenje strane koja je u pregovorima direktno preko puta i koja se ocigledno trudi da pokaze drugu stranu kao nerazumnu. Osim sto je misljenje te strane, to je i dalje samo misljenje. Ako i pricamo o "bi", a ne "je" mene interesuje gde je Syriza rekla da ce to da radi (posto su ipak oni ti koji ce to da rade ili ne). Za sada kao zvanican stav Syrize imamo da zele surplus, ali ne od 3, nego od 1,5%. To je jako daleko od dvocifrenog deficita.

[vememah]

Naravno da su nerazumni. Razumni ljudi znaju šta hoće i svesni su da ne možeš imati i jare i pare.

 

Cela ova maratonska sapunica se događa upravo zato što bi Sirizina vlada i jedno i drugo - i da ispunjava nerealna obećanja svom biračkom telu i da izgleda kao ozbiljna država koja vraća svoje dugove. Pošto su im za to potrebne tuđe pare, jer svoje žele da potroše za nešto drugo, imamo ovo mrcvarenje.

Edited April 24, 2015 by vememah

[MancMellow]

Pusti me morala, voleo bih da cujem gde se vidi da ne zele da vracaju dugove i da hoce dvocifreni deficit.