Politika u UK

[MancMellow]

Zato i kazem da nema nista od vracanja u EU, nego je to fakticki, tj bice borba dve struje u britanskoj politici, biznisu, biracima, itd o stepenu odvajanja od EU. Realno, mozda cak takav pritisak, ako Smith uopste i bude lider i ako "nametne temu" i dobro dodje Terezi protiv jastrebova kod samih Torijevaca. 

 

A drugo, sto se nece desiti al samo kazem, kad bi bas na nekom novom referendumu izglasali da hoce da ostanu u EU - naslo bi se nacina. Mislim, nije Malta u pitanju, u vise manje svacijem interesu (pojedinacnih zemalja) je da ostanu. Samo bi to naravno bilo pod drugim uslovima. Ali, kazem, to se nece desiti.

Edited August 26, 2016 by MancMellow

[Budja]

Zato i kazem da nema nista od vracanja u EU, nego je to fakticki, tj bice borba dve struje u britanskoj politici, biznisu, biracima, itd o stepenu odvajanja od EU. Realno, mozda cak takav pritisak, ako Smith uopste i bude lider i ako "nametne temu" i dobro dodje Terezi protiv jastrebova kod samih Torijevaca. 

 

A drugo, sto se nece desiti al samo kazem, kad bi bas na nekom novom referendumu izglasali da hoce da ostanu u EU - naslo bi se nacina. Mislim, nije Malta u pitanju, u vise manje svacijem interesu (pojedinacnih zemalja) je da ostanu. Samo bi to naravno bilo pod drugim uslovima. Ali, kazem, to se nece desiti.

 

Dobije Smit, "nametne temu" i krene na generalne izbore i tu kaze, jebi ga, ne moze, samo sam se salio...

I onda krenu da ga tovare.

 

Potpuno pogresan nacin za lobiranje.

[hazard]

Moze da raspise referendum o tome da li gradjani podrzavaju raspisivanje jos jednog referenduma 

[Prospero]

Theresa May will trigger Brexit negotiations without Commons vote

 

Theresa May will not hold a Parliamentary vote on Brexit

 

Steven Swinford, Deputy Political Editor

27 August 2016 • 8:13am

 

 

Theresa May will not hold a parliamentary vote on Brexit before opening negotiations to formally trigger Britain's withdrawal from the European Union, The Telegraph has learned.

Opponents of Brexit claim that because the EU referendum result is advisory it must be approved by a vote in the Commons before Article 50 - the formal mechanism to leave the EU - is triggered.

However, in a move which will cheer Eurosceptics, The Telegraph has learned that Mrs May will invoke Article 50 without a vote in Parliament 

It had been suggested - by Tony Blair, the former Labour Prime Minister, and Owen Smith, the Labour leadership candidate, among others -  that Remain-supporting MPs could use a Parliamentary vote to stop Brexit.

But sources say that because Mrs May believes that “Brexit means Brexit” she will not offer opponents the opportunity to stall Britain's withdrawal from the EU.

A Downing Street source said: “The Prime Minister has been absolutely clear that the British public have voted and now she will get on with delivering Brexit.” Mrs May has consulted Government lawyers who have told the Prime Minister she has the executive power to invoke Article 50 and begin the formal process of exiting the European Union without a vote in Parliament. Her decision will come as a blow to Remain campaigners, who had been hoping to use Parliament to delay or halt Brexit entirely.

The majority of MPs in the Commons, a total of around 480, campaigned for Britain to stay in the European Union at the last election. The House of Lords is also overwhelmingly in favour of Britain staying in the EU, meaning that obtaining formal parliamentary approval for Brexit could take years.

Mr Smith last week set out plans to block Article 50 in Parliament. He said: “Under my leadership, Labour won't give the Tories a blank cheque. "We will vote in Parliament to block any attempt to invoke Article 50 until Theresa May commits to a second referendum or a general election on whatever the EU exit deal emerges at the end of the process. I hope Jeremy will support me in such a move." Mr Blair made a similar suggestion earlier this year as he suggested that Britain should be open to the idea of holding a second referendum. He said: “If, as we start to see the details emerge of what this new world we are going into looks like, what are the practical effects, then parliament has got a role. The country should carry on being engaged in this debate, it should carry on expressing its view.”

 

A group of lawyers has mounted a legal challenge in a bid to force Mrs May to hold a parliamentary vote. The case, which will be heard in the High Court in October, argues that Article 50 cannot be invoked until the European Communities Act of 1972 is repealed. However Government lawyers are confident that they will win, paving the way for Article 50 to be triggered at the beginning of next year, which could see Britain leave the European Union in 2019.

 

Bill Cash, a eurosceptic Conservative MP and leading Brexit campaigner, said:  “It sounds emphatic and that’s what we want to hear. “There were people who are threatening to try and stop Brexit. The bottom line is that here is nothing that could possibly be allowed to stand in its way. Everyone in Europe is expecting it, the decision has been taken by the British people and that’s it. Let’s get on with it.”  Iain Duncan Smith, the former Work and Pensions Secretary, has said that the Government needs to “get on” with triggering Article 50 amid signs of increasing splits among Conservative MPs. He said: "I have spoken to them and I am definitely certain that these characters - David Davis, Liam Fox, and Boris Johnson, and the Prime Minister by the way - are very clear that they need to get on with triggering Article 50 as soon as possible early in the new year.  "When they do that, we will be bound on a course that means Britain will leave and I believe they are all very positive about the outcome that will entail. We will be out and we will do incredibly well." However Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader, has suggested that Mrs May could be “tempted” to hold an early election to increase the Conservative’s majority and capitalise on Labour’s turmoil. Jeremy Corbyn, the Labour leader, has said that he will respect he result of the EU referndum.

 

It came as a senior Czech official warned Britain that unless it triggers Article 50 soon "the goodwill that still exists will start to disappear." Tomas Prouza, the Czech secretary of state for EU affairs, issued the warning following a meeting of leaders from the Visegrad Four—Poland, Hungary and the Czech and Slovak republics—and Angela Merkel in Warsaw on Friday. “People are willing now to negotiate in good faith, but part of that good faith is based upon the UK notifying us of its intention to leave reasonably quickly, and if it comes up with a proposal reasonably quickly” he told The Telegraph, following the meeting at which  when the UK would trigger Article 50 was discussed.  “If we see no notification by late spring then we will have a very big problem and then the mood and the priority will shift to the 27 trying to come to special arrangements without the UK,” he added.

 

[MancMellow]

Striktno govoreci, ona ima pravo da "triggeruje". takodje, striktno govoreci, Parlament ima pravo da opovrgne tu (ili bilo koju drugu) njenu odluku. Sto se nece desiti, samo kazem. 

[Prospero]

Pa može ona da okine ali će biti u problemu ako recimo sud odluči po onoj žalbi da parlament mora da glasa (doduše ta odluka će biti u oktobru a neće TM pre toga ni okinuti) jer Čl50 traži da okidanje bude u skladu sa ustavnim normama.

[MancMellow]

Realno, tu je kod nje strah od gubitka vlasti. Jer kad bi takvo glasanje izgubila tesko bi mogla ostati premijer.

[bigvlada]

Onaj profesor ustavnog prava, sa linka koji sam postavio na temi o ekonomiji je rekao da je suludo da će im trebati referendum i odluka u parlamentu oko npr. toga kome će smeti da prodaju i kakvo oružje a da je odlučeno da za ovo ne treba odluka parlamenta. 

[Prospero]

Pa to je teza vrha konzervativaca i vladinih advokata, ne mora značiti da je to zaista i tako tj da neće biti raznih pravnih klipova u točkove u međuvremenu.

 

To tumačenje kaže da se radi o bazičnom prerogativu vlade, uzetom od kraljevske vlasti, koja se kroz referendum konsultovala sa narodom, i da odluka parlamenta o daljem kursu nije nužna.

[braca]

A sta se desava ako parlament izglasa da se clan 50 ne okine?

[Dr Arslanagić]

haos neviđenih razmera

[Prospero]

Oni bi valjda glasali u formi za/protiv poništenja European Communities Act 1972.

Ne verujem da bi torijevci sada išli kontra Brexita, a nisam siguran ni da bi laburisti pod Korbinom masovno glasali protiv. Ostaju SNP, libdemovi, ovih par manjih poslanika, svakako deo laburista i možda maleni deo torijevaca, mislim da je to u zbiru premalo.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Prospero

[Tribun_Populi]

To tumačenje kaže da se radi o bazičnom prerogativu vlade, uzetom od kraljevske vlasti, koja se kroz referendum konsultovala sa narodom, i da odluka parlamenta o daljem kursu nije nužna.

Tako je to inače kad nemaš ustav, pa treba da tumačiš da li je u demokratiji demos stariji od vasilevsa.

 

edit: a i čini mi se da su im s kontinenta jasno već rekli da je, što se njih tiče, odluka doneta i da mogu da se teraju?

Edited August 29, 2016 by Tribun_Populi

[MancMellow]

A sta se desava ako parlament izglasa da se clan 50 ne okine?

 

ne okida se. mislim, moze se tumaciti da nije nuzna konsultacija sa parlamentom da bi se okinuo, ali AKO bi parlament odlucio da se ne okine (i to oba doma) ne postoji visa vlast u zemlji.

 

edit: posto u HoL apsolutno ne postoji vecina za Brexit

Edited August 29, 2016 by MancMellow

[MancMellow]

edit: a i čini mi se da su im s kontinenta jasno već rekli da je, što se njih tiče, odluka doneta i da mogu da se teraju?

 

meni se cini da sto se FRA tice to je definitivno, a sto se GER tice da bi bilo ono: oooo, dobrodosli, vidite oni opt-outs...e pa, zaboravite na njih.