islamski ekstremizam

[Hella]

gert vilders - islam 1:0plačite.

[ArleKino]

gert vilders - islam 1:0plačite.

vecina ga smatra za retarda, a retardi misle da je ozbiljan politicar. otprilike kako bi srbi trebali da gledaju vucica, da su normalni.

[Аврам Гојић]

Ne vidim kako je Vilders pobedio islam, osim ako ne mislis da su se sudije rukovodile svojim licnim sentimentom prema islamu? Valjda je oslobodjen usled nedostatka dokaza, posto je Holandija nekakva pravna drzava?

[braca]

Ne vidim kako je Vilders pobedio islam, osim ako ne mislis da su se sudije rukovodile svojim licnim sentimentom prema islamu? Valjda je oslobodjen usled nedostatka dokaza, posto je Holandija nekakva pravna drzava?

Kakvih nedostatka dokaza? Dokazi su njegovi govori i tekstovi, iza kojih stoji, tako da nisu nestali. Sud je presudio da on ima pravo da kaze to sto kaze, izmedju ostalog da je islam nasilna religija. Pravna drzava, tu si u pravu.

[Аврам Гојић]

Kakvih nedostatka dokaza? Dokazi su njegovi govori i tekstovi, iza kojih stoji, tako da nisu nestali.

Ne. Sud ga je oslobodio usled nedostatka dokaza da njegovi javni nastupi pozivaju na nasilje. Funkcija suda je da utvrdi krivicu ili nevinost na osnovu raspolozivih dokaza, a ne da postavlja ideoloske i politicke precedente.

[braca]

sa linka :

Dutch right-wing populist, Geert Wilders, described the news on Thursday that he had been acquitted of hate-speech charges as "a victory for freedom of expression."Wilders was on trial for inciting hatred against Muslims and groups of non-Western origin.He was accused of describing Islam as a violent religion and making comparisons between the Koran and Hitler's "Mein Kampf."Representatives of the groups who brought the lawsuit against Wilders were bitterly disappointed by the outcome. They argued that the ruling made clear that the courts do not protect religious minorities.Now that all legal avenues to convict Wilders have been exhausted in the Netherlands, opponents plan to take the case to the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva. Public debate makes remarks acceptableThe presiding judge, Marcel van Oosten, told the court on Thursday that, although Wilders' comments were on "the border of what is permissible," he had not called for violence against Muslims at any point.Moreover, Wilders had said he had nothing against Muslims who were integrated in the Netherlands and had adopted Dutch values.Judge van Oosten went on to say that Wilders' assertion that Islam is a violent religion and his call for a ban on Muslim immigration must be seen in the "context of public debate" over Dutch immigration policy.

Ja ovde nigde ne vidim nedostatak dokaza. Covek je ponovio svoje tvrdnje na sudu, nije se branio sa "nisam to rekao, dokazite da jesam". Edited June 24, 2011 by braca

[Аврам Гојић]

Nedostatak dokaza da je pozivao na nasilje. Za to mu je sudjeno. Postoji optuzni predlog, sud postupa po njemu i ukoliko nije moguce dokazati krivicu, covek se oslobadja. Ne znam o cemu polemises, tako funkcionise sudski sistem, nisu za Vildersa smislili neko novo pravno ustrojstvo.sto se tice samog Wildersa, to je covek koji je pozivao na uvodjenje "poreza na krpe na glavi", tj. potpunu diskriminaciju muslimanskog zivlja time sto bi se nosenje marama placalo 1000 evra godisnje. izmedju toga i rane nacisticke retorike nema nikakve razlike. fakat, to nije poziv na nasilje na ulici.inace, da ne polemisem vise, ne vidim kakva je korist od objasnjavanja zasto je poziv na drzavnu diskriminaciju citave manjine nesto lose. lose je i kraj, a ko misli da nije nije neko sa kime zelim da komuniciram.

Edited June 24, 2011 by Marko M. Dabovic

[Gandalf]

Ово све по аналогији са неким расправама које сам имао са неким хришћанима тамо(рж). Спочитнем нешто, одговор је "то раде католици, ми протестанти не". Кад питам "па, јесу ли католици хришћани или нису", добијем расплинут одговор, ни главе ни репа.

kod protestanata ne postoji utvrdjena dogma koje bi se svi morali pridrzavati, obzirom da ne postoji autoritet koji bi bio neprikosnoven. kod katolika je autoritet Papa, naravno. time je svaka protestantska interpretacija reci Bozje individualna a veza sa Svevicnjim moze biti licna i bez posrednika. rasplinut odgovor je posledica toga da, u principu, niko nema mogucnost da odredi sta je tacna interpretacija, niti ko ima moc da odredi ko jeste ili nije "pravi" hriscanin. pa se i pripadnost hriscanstvu da definisati prilicno labavo. ( protestanti = muslimani -> u sustini, musliman si ako verujes u jednog i jedinog Alaha, i verujes da je Muhamed a.s. njegov poslanik. ostalo su varijacije na temu. ) Edited June 24, 2011 by Gandalf

[kim_philby]

gert vilders - islam 1:0plačite.

polako, polako...

[kim_philby]

nego malo o wildersu i stanju duha u holandiji

Despotic powersMark Rutte deserves credit for being the first Dutch prime minister in decades capable of answering a question with a simple 'yes' or 'no'. That major achievement, however, is where his credit ends. He has taken the lead of a 'center-right' minority coalition, in a stranglehold embrace by Geert Wilders' fear-mongering anti-islamist PVV on which the coalition depends for key support.The recent cuts in culture funding that this government has introduced, nominally to make the Netherlands more economically competitive, do not stand on their own. Despite introducing 'animal cops' to defend the rights of pets, this government has decimated its spending on nature preservation as well (yes, the Netherlands, despite being the size of a stamp, has wild parks). It has given up on green and clean energy, has dramatically reduced developmental aid, and has symbolically increased the speed limit on a tiny stretch of freeway to 130 km/h.The anti-arts attitude which this government has adopted was carefully incubated by years of Wilders-copyrighted hate speech, which has now become standing policy. The government is going to severely cut cultural funding, mostly in the visual arts. It is going to eliminate entire institutions, and in effect is organizing a single massive layoff from state-supported and state-stimulated jobs in the cultural sector. Secretary of Culture Halbe Zijlstra is proud not to be an arts connoisseur – it would make it more difficult for him to make cuts. He sidelined his advisory board, the Council for Culture, which proposed a gradual implementation of the austerity measures.After a crucial visit to the Holland Festival, Zijlstra last minute exempted a few top end performing arts organizations from his cutbacks. In fact, these were exactly the type of institutions the well-educated share of the VVD electorate appreciates for its time-tested productions. Zijlstra's ad hoc 'generosity' only further reveals the despotic power behind the austerity measures.The less fortunate institutions, in response to the cutbacks, now urge the public to sign petitions in their support, one petition per institution. These organizations do exactly what their executioners hoped for; they start to fight for their individual survival instead of helping each other.It should be said that the cuts come not entirely unexpected. Some of the arts institutions which now suddenly bemoan and lament the degrading of the Dutch government were completely unconcerned by the rise of the political movement which made this possible to begin with. A large share of culture funding beneficiaries simply didn't consider their own relationship to the larger public context, nitpicking at politically inspired work that was not just for conceptual infotainment. This near-complete, leisure-focused de-politization of the Dutch arts and culture scene has finally been refuted.We should ask ourselves if it is such a bad idea to get rid of some of the entitlement that we have come to take for granted, as this has made the entire cultural system dependent not as much on public money, as on the personal whims of our corrupted political leaders.What kind of leaders do we have? They are a laughable bunch of autocrats who, while cutting on culture, are instituting the Netherlands as a society of control.When the historian Thomas von der Dunk was invited to give the annual Willem Arondeus lecture (named after a homosexual resistance fighter) in April 2011, he wrote a speech which contained critical comments on Wilders and his PVV. The PVV got word of this, and had its political allies cancel the lecture, threatening to kill the entire lecture as an institution. Von der Dunk gave a lecture anyway. This is the cultural warfare that this government is launching on dissent.Wilders is the sole dictator of his own Stalinist-style political organization, running from the parliament building a shady private enterprise, 'OnLiberty BV', of which the finances are undisclosed. Nobody in the Netherlands cares the less. This is only a small exponent of a corrupted political order, cynically underpinned by a culture of sheepish civic cooperation with authorities. The war on art, war on ideas, and war on dissent that this government has unleashed will become a cultural divide, and it will take more than the signing of a petition to come to terms with it.Finally this will allow people abroad to see the Netherlands for what it really has become: a small-minded security haven for rich, white pensioners. No longer the liberal laboratory of Europe, we need a new resistance, a new politics, and a new art to set us free. No one will do it for us. We will have to create it ourselves.MetahavenAmsterdam, June 20, 2011

[Lord Protector]

( protestanti = muslimani -> u sustini, musliman si ako verujes u jednog i jedinog Alaha, i verujes da je Muhamed a.s. njegov poslanik. ostalo su varijacije na temu. )

Možda suniti=protestanti a šiiti=katolici/pravoslavci? :)

[расејан]

Ne. Sud ga je oslobodio usled nedostatka dokaza da njegovi javni nastupi pozivaju na nasilje. Funkcija suda je da utvrdi krivicu ili nevinost na osnovu raspolozivih dokaza, a ne da postavlja ideoloske i politicke precedente.

Аман, Васо! Преседане.(попио литру црног никшићког (цг: тамног) па сам обарачки срећан)

[расејан]

kod protestanata ne postoji utvrdjena dogma koje bi se svi morali pridrzavati, obzirom da ne postoji autoritet koji bi bio neprikosnoven. kod katolika je autoritet Papa, naravno. time je svaka protestantska interpretacija reci Bozje individualna a veza sa Svevicnjim moze biti licna i bez posrednika. rasplinut odgovor je posledica toga da, u principu, niko nema mogucnost da odredi sta je tacna interpretacija, niti ko ima moc da odredi ko jeste ili nije "pravi" hriscanin. pa se i pripadnost hriscanstvu da definisati prilicno labavo. ( protestanti = muslimani -> u sustini, musliman si ako verujes u jednog i jedinog Alaha, i verujes da je Muhamed a.s. njegov poslanik. ostalo su varijacije na temu. )

М...да, сви су они муслимани/хришћани/штавећисти, ал' кад им спочитнеш било шта, то ми не радимо, то су увек они други. Релативизација рула по писти.

[Gandalf]

Možda suniti=protestanti a šiiti=katolici/pravoslavci? :)

siiti su s te strane blizi katolicima & pravoslavcima, ali ne sasvim. kod siita veliki ajatolasi imaju odredjeni autoritet, ali i tu mozes da biras kojeg ajatolaha da prihvatis kao "svog". a ima i struja koje ne priznaju autoritet bilo kojeg imama ili ajatolaha (npr. Zajdi u Jemenu i Saudi Arabiji).dok je u Iranu upravo autoritet velikih ajatolaha jedno od spornih pitanja u tihom sukobu koji se razvija ovih dana.

If, as Khomeini claimed, the Islamic Republic is the embodiment of a just and sacred government, Shiites no longer need the clergy as the anchor of their faith. Holiness rests in the state and not the guardians of the state. The idea appeals to the muscular nationalism and Bonapartist ambitions of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC), which believes that military might, rather than clerical leadership, sustain Iran against domestic and foreign enemies....The larger message, which was not lost on skittish ayatollahs, was that the lay president was giving notice that the messiah favored him over the clerics. Mashaei, Ahmadinejad's close advisor, has been blunter, declaring that Shiism can and should do without clerics and that the Islamic Republic no longer needs a supreme leader.Unsurprisingly, many in Iran have come to see Ahmadinejad as the Shiite Martin Luther, determined to break the clergy. Senior ayatollahs have accordingly criticized the president at every turn and refused to receive him or his representatives in the holy city of Qom.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Gandalf

[Gandalf]

npr. nepostojanje vrhovnog religijskog autoriteta koji bi prihvatio evoluciju dovodi do toga da je kreacionizam najpopularniji kod protestanata i muslimana...

Edited June 27, 2011 by Gandalf