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Španija i Katalonija

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kurjak92

Ma dobro to, i spanci su bili ljute guje nema spora, evropa je bila najkrvolcnija zver na svetu u proslosti, al ako pricamo o poratnom periodu sve je to go kurac 

Koliko je jak i odlucan pokret za nezavisnost? Sta ce  da rade ako dobiju na referendumu a madrida kaze LOL aj palite. Hoce da krenu dobrim starim putem gerile? Jel ih gazi centralna vlast? Jel upada sad spanski db i hapsi nocu pristalice nezavisnosti, muci, strelja itd. Jel ako nemas bar tvrdo odlucno jezgro koje je krenulo tim putem, a nemas ni represiju centra da zaiskraju varnice, sve se to svedi na fb palamudjenje i mahanje zastavicama

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MancMellow

Подели ту одговорност, мене баш интересује. Колико смо криви за бомбардовање?

 

Pa ne volim da koristim "mi", obično volim da kažem "Milošević", pošto ne mislim da je bio legitiman vladar. 

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KNKNPNKN

spanija bi mogla da se povede primerom davida kockara kamerona, i da omoguci referendum, mozda i dobije kao i david kockar sa skotima...

ali, david kockar je posle pukao na bregzitu, da li je to bas pravi covek da se ide njegovim stopama, pitaju se spanci

manje vise sto je david kockar legalizovao odvajane skotske putem referenduma, bas bi bilo fino da i spanci kataloncima isto legalizuju odvajanje

 

spanija, ako je ozbiljna drzava i zeli da ostane u ovim granicama, mora da postane diktatura, zabrana referenduma, hapsenje organizatora i zagovornika i slanje na robiju, verbalni delikt i sl....(raspustanje fc barcelona)

Edited by ruskabajka

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Eraserhead

spanija bi mogla da se povede primerom davida kockara kamerona, i da omoguci referendum, mozda i dobije kao i david kockar sa skotima...

ali, david kockar je posle pukao na bregzitu, da li je to bas pravi covek da se ide njegovim stopama, pitaju se spanci

manje vise sto je david kockar legalizovao odvajane skotske putem referenduma, bas bi bilo fino da i spanci kataloncima isto legalizuju odvajanje

 

spanija, ako je ozbiljna drzava i zeli da ostane u ovim granicama, mora da postane diktatura, zabrana referenduma, hapsenje organizatora i zagovornika i slanje na robiju, verbalni delikt i sl....(raspustanje fc barcelona)

 

Plus polonijum. Nema te ozbiljne drzave koja ne koristi polonijum.  :fantom:

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Tsai

Подели ту одговорност, мене баш интересује. Колико смо криви за бомбардовање?

 

poprilicno. na svaki zamisliv nacin. pocev od tri vodjena rata pre toga, satiranja civila po prijedoru, visegradu, srbinju koje je kulminiralo znamo vec cime.

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vememah

Predsednik Katalonije Puđdemon se oglasio u Gardijanu:

 

Spain’s attempt to block Catalonia’s referendum is a violation of our basic rights
 

Carles Puigdemont

The aggressive tactics of Mariano Rajoy’s government have caused this crisis. All Catalan citizens want is to peacefully exercise our democratic right
Catalan leader accuses Spain of violating rights in referendum row

Thursday 21 September 2017 14.11 BST

Last modified on Thursday 21 September 2017 22.00 BST

 

Democracy has been under a lot of pressure in Catalonia for the past few weeks. European values, civil rights, freedom of speech, freedom of information and freedom of assembly are being violated by Spain’s central government, which has sent the police to search newspapers, printing companies and private mail services; ban political meetings; seize referendum material; and threaten to imprison democratically elected politicians.

 

On Wednesday, this moved up a gear, when threats became reality and Spanish paramilitary police took Catalonia to a de facto state of emergency. Fourteen high-ranking government officials were arrested as part of the anti-referendum operation, as police raided government buildings, offices and private homes. Catalan home rule has effectively been suspended due to this anti-democratic attitude from the Spanish government. It’s a situation that harks back to the dark past of this country, when democracy was not a part of the Spanish dictionary. What is happening here in Catalonia would not happen anywhere else in the European Union.

We have arrived at this unacceptable situation after asking Madrid for political dialogue dozens of times, and each time being rejected by the Spanish executive, which has consistently refused to discuss Catalonia’s future. But a healthy democracy needs dialogue in order to evolve. Instead of engaging in discourse, the Spanish government has opted for police and judges, taking us beyond the limits of a respectable democracy.

 

With the arrests of high-ranking officials and threats to detain democratically elected politicians, I believe the Spanish government has violated the European charter of fundamental rights. The EU itself is built on these values and is committed to guaranteeing the rights proclaimed in the charter and in the EU treaties. As an EU member state, Spain should respect that. If not, it is the European commission’s duty to intervene. The rule of law is accepted across Europe as the guarantee of our rights, but the Spanish president, Mariano Rajoy, is twisting our law to suit his own political ends in blocking the referendum. Spain’s constitution was introduced to cement democracy after Franco’s dictatorship, but this government is exploiting its wording as a means to deny us our right to vote.

 

Catalan citizens are peaceful, European and open-minded, we want to contribute to better international and European governance. The crackdown on our attempts to achieve a democratic process is alien to the way that we both think and act. Our response has been peaceful, despite the heavy-handed tactics from central government, putting democracy and good humour at the forefront. All we want is to carry out the greatest expression of a free democracy, and vote on Catalonia’s future. This is not about independence, it is about fundamental civil rights, and the universal right of self-determination.

We have only arrived at this crisis due to aggressive tactics employed by Rajoy over the past seven years. In 2010, the Spanish constitutional court annulled a large part of the Catalan statute of autonomy negotiated between Catalonia and the previous prime minister, José Luis Zapatero. This demolished one of the main agreements achieved during the Spanish transition to democracy – Catalonia’s recovery of self-governance.

 

The ruling by the court – whose current president is a former activist for Rajoy’s conservative Popular party – showed contempt for the legitimacy of the statute of autonomy, which had been approved by both the Catalan and Spanish parliaments, and also by the Catalan citizens through a referendum. More than a million people marched against this annulment in Barcelona in July 2010. Since then, millions more Catalan citizens have taken peacefully to the streets in defence of self-rule and the right to decide on their political future.

 

No longer will we compromise on our desire for a referendum. We won’t give up on it. Catalans will exercise their right to decide in the 1 October referendum – whatever the actions of central government. We call on the international community to stand with Catalonia in its defence of democracy and true European values. In the meantime, our citizens must be ready to defend democracy and self-rule in the coming days with the only weapons we have: ballot boxes and a peaceful attitude.

 

Carles Puigdemont is the 130th president of Catalonia

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/21/catalonia-bloack-catalonia-referendum-rights-mariano-rajoy-carles-puigdemont?CMP=soc_3156

Edited by vememah

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Anonymous

poprilicno. na svaki zamisliv nacin. pocev od tri vodjena rata pre toga, satiranja civila po prijedoru, visegradu, srbinju koje je kulminiralo znamo vec cime.

 

Šta je Srbinje?

 

edit: ono nije da ne znam koji se to drevni grad tako naziva samo u Srbiji i nigde više.

Edited by Anonymous

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porucnik vasic

Pa ne volim da koristim "mi", obično volim da kažem "Milošević", pošto ne mislim da je bio legitiman vladar. 

 

 

A da, opet ona ista tema kako su nas bombardovali i prekinuli u poljskim radovima. Kad jednom utuvite sebi u glavu da su za bombardovanje krivi i Srbija i NATO i da svako ima svoj deo odgovornosti za nj manje će vam mržnje plivati kroz krvtok. Odjavljujem se. 

Овде си противуречан у најмању руку. Користиш нас, а онда имаш примедбу на ми.Оно Милошевић као био владар је исто спорно, био је изабран на изборима и у условима који су били демократскији него избори у у Србистану у последњих десетак година или у Дукљу икад. Хоћеш да кажеш да Вучић педер и дон Мило нису легитимни?

Још ми ниси одговорио колико смо то ми одговорни у процентима а колико НАТО што се њихов агресије на нас тиче?

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Eraserhead

Šta je Srbinje?

 

edit: ono nije da ne znam koji se to drevni grad tako naziva samo u Srbiji i nigde više.

 

Foca. Heroji koji su zauzeli grad 1992 su se istripovali da je Foca turska rec i promenili u sta drugo nego Srbinje (to su takvi kreativni mozgovi bili). Usput su uspostavili i kamp za silovanja u sportskom centru Partizan i u kome su bile smestene desetine zena (koliko se secam od 14 godina pa navise) i u koji su vojnici svracali i silovali ih kad god bi se uzeleli. To sve zna bukvalno 0.001% populacije u Srbiji.

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Filozof manijak

Prebasite te bosanske paralele na odgovarajući topik. Držite ste Španije i Katalonije.

Erasere, moraš li svaku raspravu da zatruješ?

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Eraserhead

Prebasite te bosanske paralele na odgovarajući topik. Držite ste Španije i Katalonije.

Erasere, moraš li svaku raspravu da zatruješ?

Evo proverio sam. Moram.

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KNKNPNKN

Plus polonijum. Nema te ozbiljne drzave koja ne koristi polonijum.  :fantom:

jesi li proverio da nema polonijuma u toj kafi?

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MancMellow

Овде си противуречан у најмању руку. Користиш нас, а онда имаш примедбу на ми.Оно Милошевић као био владар је исто спорно, био је изабран на изборима и у условима који су били демократскији него избори у у Србистану у последњих десетак година или у Дукљу икад. Хоћеш да кажеш да Вучић педер и дон Мило нису легитимни?

Још ми ниси одговорио колико смо то ми одговорни у процентима а колико НАТО што се њихов агресије на нас тиче?

 

Imam primedbu na koriscenje "mi" u smislu odgovornosti, ne u smislu trpljenja radnje.  

 

Milosevicev rezim je celokupnom svojom politikom, posebno prema Albancima, od dolaska na vlast pa do 1999 snosi ogromnu odgovornost sto je doslo do takvog razvoja situacije, to je nesumnjivo. O konkretnim procentima...to kad budu dostupni svi ili vecina relevantnih izvori. U Srbiji je danas na sceni u najboljem slucaju guranje u zaborav uloge tog rezima u genezi tog nesrecnog rata, a u gorem slucaju apologija. To prosto ne odgovara istini. Nema potrebe u Srbiji objasnjavati nekom da je NATO prekrsio medjunarodno pravo, to svi znaju, ali na tome se ne gradi kompletna slika...ako treba da bude verna. 

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