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Њујоркер

Eh, da, nije me mrzelo da drndam po netu, sav taj led bi dodao citav 1mm okeanima (zapravo i manje). Drz's se Bangaldesu!

 

 

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I*m with the pilots
21 hours ago, namenski said:

Nisam ni na trenutak sporio znacaj problema klimatskih promena, a El Nina sam pomenuo samo kao primer neodgovornog pristupa, pre svega medijskog, a bogami i naucnog problemu: dobro secam generisanja panike oko El Nina, pre mozda - ako se ne varam - 10-ak, mozda nesto vise godina u kome su raznorazni najavljivali propast sveta sve vezanog za njegovo ponasanje....

Sto se tice Inka, Moča i ostalih, jedno je sigurno: ni jedna jedina od poznatih nam Civilizacija nije uginula zbog neke globalne kataklizme poput brzinskog otopljavanja, El Nina i ovde pominjane Golfske struje koja usporava :isuse:: razne Krakataue, zemljotrese, itd, ne racunam, oni su ipak lokalne pojave.

 

 

Ali ovde si malo kontradiktoran; ne sporis znacaj ali onda ne verujes da je neka prirodna kataklizma doprinela smrti civilizacije. Ili svrstavas to pod "lokalno", mozda se tu ne razumemo? Vredi malo procackati o tome ako te zanima. O tim plemenima se sve vise saznaje danas, jer se mnogo toga otkopalo tek u poslednjih nekoliko decenija i dosta toga je nepoznanica (slight offtopic; a pogotovo za turiste, tako da su obilasci lokaliteta vezanih za Moce super jer maltene nema zive duse, svi su dole u Macu Pikcuu ;D) a izgleda da su cak jos Spanci, kada su krenuli u eksploataciju Juzne Amerike, dosli do slicnog zakljucka za njih i jos neke grupe. Te Moce konkretno su ziveli bas na pojasu uz obalu, nisu isli gore u Ande. Za Inke je jasno - njihova kataklizma su bili Spanci (da nisu oni za koju stotinu godina bi bili mozda neki drugi, jos jaci, jer u tim godinama kada je sunovrat poceo su bili na vrhuncu).

 

Quote
Science

3 March 1990

Science: El Nino events devastated two ancient civilisations

 

EXCEPTIONALLY strong El Nino events may have contributed to the downfall
of two early civilisations in Peru, according to American researchers. El
Nino is the name given to a cyclical change in the circulation of the ocean
and atmosphere over a large part of the south Pacific.

Michael Moseley, an anthropologist at the University of Florida in Gainesville,
has consulted historical records in Peru. He says that severe flooding devastated
coastal cities around AD 600 and AD 1100.

The evidence that this flooding was associated with strong El Nino events
comes from ice cores taken from a glacier about 1000 kilometres to the southwest
of the afflicted cities. The cores indicate that the Andes suffered unusually
severe droughts at around AD 600 and AD 1100. Normal El Nino events are
known to produce droughts in the highlands, although these are much shorter
than the two on record.

Researchers stress that the link between climate and the collapse of
ancient cultures in Peru is tentative. The ice cores that have been studied
do not record directly either coastal climate or El Nino events.

 

 

Lonnie Thompson, of the Polar Institute at Ohio State University in
Columbus, has studied the ratios of isotopes of oxygen in the ice cores.
These are related to temperature because the rate at which water evaporates
from the sea is different for water containing different isotopes of oxygen.
This water falls as snow, which is then incorporated in ice.

Thompson says that the isotope ratios show that around AD 600 and AD
1100, the climate was ‘warmer than at any time since 1531’. Warm water always
accompanies El Nino.

Moseley says that the drought recorded in the ice core between AD 560
and AD 590 matches a sharp decline in the Moche culture on the north coast
of Peru. Their capital was flooded, rebuilt, then overrun by sand dunes,
which were apparently related to a drought. The Moche moved their capital
north to Pampa Grande.

More evidence for flood damage comes from Spanish chronicles. They record
the legend of a coastal dynasty which ended when the last ruler moved a
sacred ancestral idol. This triggered a deluge, which lasted 30 days.

A mountain drought, such as the one recorded in the ice core, would
have deprived the Moche of the ‘runoff’ water that they used to irrigate
the arid Peruvian coast. ‘A 30-year drought certainly would make their lives
difficult,’ says Crystal Schaaf, a meteorologist at the Air Force Geophysics
Laboratory in Bedford, Massachusetts. She has studied the ice core with
Thompson, and Izumi Shimada of the Peabody Museum at Harvard University.

Shimada says that the Moche culture underwent changes that imply the
people were concerned about floods and drought. Their new capital, at Pampa
Grande, was about 50 kilometres inland, at the neck of the larger Lambayaque
Valley. In this position, it could control the flow of water for irrigation
better than at the original site.

Thompson says that the ice cores show that there was another severe
drought in the mountains around AD 1100. By that time, the Chimu culture
had arisen in the Moche valley, while the separate Sican dynasty occupied
the Lambayaque Valley. Moseley says that both cultures suffered severe flood
damage. But, whereas the Sican dynasty collapsed, the Chimu were able to
rebuild their city and irrigation system.

 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg12517063-100-science-el-nino-events-devastated-two-ancient-civilisations/

 

Edited by I*m with the pilots

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Hellbilly Kali

 

7 hours ago, Њујоркер said:

Dakle, ti kukas da ce nas stavka 4 potopiti kad se izlije sva stavka 1 (mada ne znam koliki je tu procenat Arktika, ali nek je i 70%, kako se onda preracunava 0.2% svetskog leda u metre nadolazecih okeana na Amsterdam i Rio)?

 

Ne, ja kukam da kada se otopi Severni ledeni Grenland će se otopiti značajno brže, a Grenland nije šala.

A ne znam odakle ti ideja da se Antarktik fino domrzava?

 

6 hours ago, Њујоркер said:

Eh, da, nije me mrzelo da drndam po netu, sav taj led bi dodao citav 1mm okeanima (zapravo i manje). 

 

Pročitala.

Žena objašnjava kako se računa porast nivoa mora u odnosu na otapanje - na primeru 1mm podzanja.

 

Na početku lepo daje tabelu koliko bi topljenje svakog od navedenih ice sheet-ova doprinelo podizanju nivoa mora. U metrima.

Ice on land Sea level equivalent (m)
Antarctic Ice Sheet 58.3
Greenland Ice Sheet 7.36
Glaciers and ice caps 0.41

 

I onda razlaže i objašnjava formulu kako ti podaci izračunavaju.

Na primeru 1mm.

 

Stvarno ne znam šta si ti drndao, ali i dalje ne mogu da verujem šta tvrdiš slepima i gluvima i na osnovu čega. :blink:

(a sajt je odličan btw, hvala).

Edited by Hellbilly Kali
typo

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mei

1. Lični napadi na ovoj temi će biti sankcionisani 

2. Diskusija o fazama civilizacija je splitovana na Istoriju:  click

3. Jedna lična prepirka je prebačena na deponiju (link nije potreban, also see 1. )

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Indy

Kako vas samo ne mrzi. I jedne i druge.

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Њујоркер

@Hellbilly Kali

 

Znaci, ti mene stvarno zajebavas. Imala si u ranijem mom postu pored svih nabrojanih lednika, glecera, selfova i cegasvejos, sa strane i popisane gubike i dobitke od 1960. godine. I sad mi mases Gardijanom (dobro da nije Borba ili Komunist) ispred nosa kako se dave kraljevski pingvini na juznom polu, a za njima cemo koliko sutra i mi. Na stranu svakom noramlno coveku poznata NAUCNA cinjenica da je Antarktik hladniji od Arktika zbog toga sto lezi na kontinentu, te samim tim i sanse za Snjeguljice i patuljke da napaduju su iznimno vece dole nego na Arktiku, a bogme i da se zadrze. Uostalom i NASA i je imala svoja istrazivanja Antarktika, i pre par godina, objavljeni su rezultati. Kao sto se vidi, ovo su tvoji, minimiziranje je maksimalno (ako se tako mogu odraziti), a cak se i provlaci i relevantnost podataka sa satelita. Ali, to samo govori o kakvoj se gamadi radi i koja ne zeli nista da cuje osim o potopu kao takvom. I na kraju, usudicu se i da kazem da je i Grenland dobio vise snega nego sto je izgubio. Da Grenland u centru dobija sneg svake godine to se zna, ali vise gubi nagrizanjem po bokovima. E prosle sezone je doslo do male promene. I sta ukoliko usledi nekoliko sezona sa Nikolama? Hm?

Ma dzaba pitam, i dalje ce biti potop! potop!

 

 

A sad odoh da spavam, bez brige da ce se moj Menhetn za o vreme zavrsiti pod talasima.

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namenski

venta-maersk-1.jpg

Jedan od najvecih svetskih brodara, Maersk, ponosno je objavio da je njegov brod Venta Maersk u petak prispeo u Lenjingrad Sankt Petersburg, posle istorijskog prvog prolaza takozvanim Severnim morskim putem iz Azije u Evropu.

Venta Maersk, 34,882 GRT, 42,000 DWT, pripada klasi novih brodova svrstanih u Baltic Feeder sortu, zapoceo je putovanje iz Vladivostoka 22. avgusta, ticao Vostocnij i Busan, prosao Beringovim moreuzom 6. septembra... 

Prema Maersk-u, putovanje Severnim morskim putem 'proslo je u svemu prema planu i bez posebnih teskoca...'

'Srecni smo sto mozemo da pozelimo dobrodoslicu posadi posle ovog jedinstvenog putovanja' kaze Palle Laursen, glavni i odgovorni za tehniku kod Maersk-a, pa nastavlja: '...putovanje je predstavljalo znacajno operativno iskustvo, testiralo brodske sisteme i obavljeno je bez potrebe da se angazuje pomoc sa strane...'

Ovo oko pomoci se odnosi na cinjenicu da je putovanje Severnim morskim putem moguce otprilike 3 meseca godisnje, dok je u drugim periodima potrebna pomoc ledolomaca, narocito u Istocno sibirskom moru.

 

Venta Maersk je inace cetvrti od sedam sestara i zaplovio je jula ove, 2018. godine: trenutno predstavlja najveci brod na svetu koji klasom zadovoljava uslove eksploatacije u polarnim oblastima (temperatura ispod -25o C i mogucnost operacija tokom cele godine.

Brod ima nominalni kapacitet od 3,956 TEU, od cega 600 hladjenih, a pripada Sealand-u, Maersk-ovoj kompaniji svojevremeno poznatoj kao Seago Lines, inace Maersk-ovom razvozniku koji je servisirao Rusiju i ticao Sankt Petersburg.

Ipak, u Maersk-u kazu da za sada jos uvek ne vide Severni morski put kao isplativu komercijalnu alternativu klasicnim morskim putevima izmedju Evrope i Azije, ali su spremni da izvrse pripreme za uvodjenje redovnih linija ukoliko se za tim ukaze potreba, pa cak i po cenu novih ulaganja.

venta-maersk-2.jpg

 

Edited by namenski

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urkozamanje

ovoga se npr. nisam setio.. 

 

 

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Skyhighatrist

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/oceans-temperatures-rising-778581/

Quote

If there is an upside to this recent paper, it’s this: It’s further proof that climate science — and knowledge about the risks we face in the future — are getting better, more accurate and more sophisticated. We may or we may not be doomed, but we can’t say we weren’t warned

 

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vememah
Posted (edited)

ECWjoKPW4AUBNo0?format=png&name=small

 

Quote

 

Mourners have gathered in Iceland to commemorate the loss of Okjokull, which has died at the age of about 700.

The glacier was officially declared dead in 2014 when it was no longer thick enough to move.

What once was glacier has been reduced to a small patch of ice atop a volcano.

Prime Minister Katrin Jakobsdottir, Environment Minister Gudmundur Ingi Gudbrandsson and former Irish President Mary Robinson attended the ceremony.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49345912

 

Septembar 1986:

JlPKpbh.png

 

Avgust 2019:

kJR4693.png

Edited by vememah

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hazard

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-09-19/solar-and-wind-power-so-cheap-they-re-outgrowing-subsidies

 

Quote

For years, wind and solar power were derided as boondoggles. They were too expensive, the argument went, to build without government handouts.

 

Today, renewable energy is so cheap that the handouts they once needed are disappearing.

 

On sun-drenched fields across Spain and Italy, developers are building solar farms without subsidies or tax-breaks, betting they can profit without them. In China, the government plans to stop financially supporting new wind farms. And in the U.S., developers are signing shorter sales contracts, opting to depend on competitive markets for revenue once the agreements expire.

 

“The training wheels are off,” said Joe Osha, an equity analyst at JMP Securities. “Prices have declined enough for both solar and wind that there’s a path toward continued deployment in a post-subsidy world.”

 

spacer.png

 

The reason, in short, is the subsidies worked. After decades of quotas, tax breaks and feed-in-tariffs, wind and solar have been deployed widely enough for manufacturers and developers to become increasingly efficient and drive down costs. The cost of wind power has fallen about 50% since 2010. Solar has dropped 85%. That makes them cheaper than new coal and gas plants in two-thirds of the world, according to BloombergNEF.

 

“Solar got cheap,” said Jenny Chase, an analyst at BNEF. “It’s really that simple.”

 

 

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